On Tuesday, 4 בJanuary 2011 19:43:53 Omer Zak wrote: > The article "The Challenge In Delivering Open-Source GPU > Drivers" (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODk3MA) > discusses the obstacles facing Intel and AMD in getting up to date Linux > support for new graphic cards into Linux distributions.
1. The claim Phoronix present in the article that Linux release cycle is too slow for graphics stack updates should be taken with several grains of salt: * Both Intel and AMD know how to work with FOSS *pre-release* so the software support is in place before the silicon is shipped. Two prime examples are the release of Intel/Itanium more than a decade ago and the release of AMD/Opteron more than 5 years ago -- We talk about complete new (64bits) CPU architectures here and in both cases Linux was ready when silicon was ready (unlike Windows...) * The release cycle of desktop Linux distro Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian-Testing etc. is fast enough to enable many possible merge points. Let's look at real data -- Examples from Fedora on my Laptop (June-Dec 2010): - Kernel (yes the box was upgraded in Nov-2010: fc13 -> fc14): $ grep kernel-PAE-2 /var/log/yum.log-20110101 | grep Installed Jun 02 00:21:12 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.33.5-112.fc13.i686 Jun 15 23:43:25 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.33.5-124.fc13.i686 Jul 10 23:53:31 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.33.6-147.fc13.i686 Aug 04 02:23:42 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.33.6-147.2.4.fc13.i686 Aug 24 12:21:18 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.33.8-149.fc13.i686 Sep 05 11:30:03 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.34.6-47.fc13.i686 Sep 10 19:53:34 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.34.6-54.fc13.i686 Sep 24 01:49:23 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.34.7-56.fc13.i686 Oct 23 23:16:50 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.34.7-61.fc13.i686 Dec 05 21:30:10 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.35.9-64.fc14.i686 Dec 23 11:30:32 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.35.10-72.fc14.i686 Dec 27 14:22:06 Installed: kernel-PAE-2.6.35.10-74.fc14.i686 - Xorg server: $ grep xorg-x11-server-Xorg /var/log/yum.log-20110101 Jul 02 10:07:40 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.8.0-17.fc13.i686 Jul 10 23:57:40 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.8.2-1.fc13.i686 Jul 25 10:53:30 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.8.2-2.fc13.i686 Aug 08 08:55:39 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.8.2-3.fc13.i686 Sep 24 01:48:57 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.8.2-4.fc13.i686 Nov 26 13:02:29 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.9.1-3.fc14.i686 Dec 23 11:35:40 Updated: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.9.3-3.fc14.i686 - Xorg drivers (cut long lines): $ grep xorg-x11-drv /var/log/yum.log-20110101 | cut -c1-60 May 28 10:46:43 Updated: 1:xorg-x11-drv-nouveau-0.0.16-6.201 May 29 23:00:40 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-wacom-0.10.6-2.fc13.i6 Jun 02 00:16:40 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-synaptics-1.2.2-6.fc13 Jun 11 16:50:44 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-wacom-0.10.6-3.fc13.i6 Jun 23 23:00:32 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-wacom-0.10.6-4.fc13.i6 Jul 02 10:08:13 Updated: 1:xorg-x11-drv-nouveau-0.0.16-7.201 Jul 02 10:08:15 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-intel-2.11.0-5.fc13.i6 Jul 02 10:08:16 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-elographics-1.2.4-1.fc Jul 10 23:57:41 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-vmmouse-12.6.9-4.fc13. Aug 21 06:04:10 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-wacom-0.10.8-2.fc13.i6 Sep 05 11:32:39 Updated: 1:xorg-x11-drv-nouveau-0.0.16-8.201 Nov 06 15:49:24 Installed: xorg-x11-drv-wacom-0.10.8-1.20100 Nov 19 03:10:10 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-wacom-0.10.8-2.fc14.i6 - KDE: $ grep kdelibs-4 /var/log/yum.log-20110101 May 28 11:45:39 Installed: 6:kdelibs-4.4.3-2.fc13.i686 Jun 17 09:58:21 Updated: 6:kdelibs-4.4.4-1.fc13.i686 Jul 14 10:58:46 Updated: 6:kdelibs-4.4.5-1.fc13.i686 Nov 19 03:06:46 Updated: 6:kdelibs-4.5.3-1.fc14.i686 Nov 28 09:05:23 Updated: 6:kdelibs-4.5.3-3.fc14.i686 Dec 12 13:15:27 Updated: 6:kdelibs-4.5.4-2.fc14.i686 > Seems that there are all kinds of interlocking interdependencies - both > kernel, X-Window and Mesa (OpenGL implementation) need to be updated to > support such drivers. 2. It should be noted that this wave of updates is because the Linux graphics stack had pretty out of date architecture not long ago because graphic cards vendors did not want to play the FOSS game. This changed in the latest 2-3 years: * Intel which had FOSS drivers for a longer time, started doing more serious graphics cores (e.g: shaders etc.) -- leading to major changes.in the Linux graphics stack. * Roughly at the same time, AMD bought ATI and made them work together with FOSS developers -- leading to similar major changes. So you get the picture -- about 2-3 years ago a technological shock wave started in the Linux graphics stack. Trust me, as a user of a bleading edge distro [Fedora] and a very demanding graphics desktop [KDE-4] these changes was strongly felt by me -- Including having to use GNOME for few months on my older laptop about two years ago [circa Fedora-10]. However most of it is over and in the last year I see very good out of the box support for various Intel chipsets -- so getting the same experience for bleading edge chipsets is quickly approaching (including AMD/ATI -- although I have less experience with them) What we see is a temporal problem here and not something inherent to Linux distros development cycle or FOSS. > And this is a problem for distributions which > periodically release a version (Arch and Gentoo are exceptions). > > I do not understand one thing. > Debian has backports (http://backports.debian.org/). Through backports, > it is possible to get the appropriate updated versions into a > installation based upon a particular release. > > Don't other distributions have backports, too? 3. Backports are needed for distributions with long life cycle. These distros can pull *some* modern packages from their fast-pacing relatives: * Debian-stable have backports from Debian-Testing. ,* RedHat/Centos have extra modern packages from Fedora (EPEL repository) While they are different, there are some common attributes: * In both cases, only *selected* packages are backported/added. Normally, nobody tries to add packages that conflict with existing packages and may make package maintenance a nightmare. * In both cases, the packages are taken from a distribution that is standing on its own and may be installed in the first place if so desired. This means that the probability that backports or EPEL would push big architectural changes (as opposed to one driver update) into a "stable" distro is very low, and for a good reason. Also, this is why most people using Linux desktops, choose some fast-pacing distribution. Don't worry, be happy ;-) -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson
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