On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 4:38 AM, Peter Zijlstra <pet...@infradead.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 02:12:51AM +0900, Byungchul Park wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Peter Zijlstra <pet...@infradead.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So the idea is to add support for non-owner serialization primitives,
>> > like completions/semaphores, and so far I've not looked at the code yet.
>> > I did spend 2+ hours trying to decipher your documentation thing, but am
>> > still confused, that thing is exceedingly hard to parse/read.
>> >
>> > So the typical scenario would be something like:
>> >
>> > L a L a
>> > U a
>> > W b C b
>> >
>> > where L := lock, U := unlock, W := wait_for_completion and C :=
>> > complete.
>> >
>> > On the left, the blocking thread we can easily observe the 'b depends on
>> > a' relation, since we block while holding a.
>>
>> I think 'a depends on b' relation.
>>
>> Why does b depend on a? b depends on a's what?
>
> b blocks while holding a. In any case, for the graph it doesn't matter,
> its not a directed graph as such, all we care about is acyclic.
It's a directed graph.The meaning of backward traverse is different
from the meaning of forward traverse, isn't it?
>> > On the right however that same relation is hard to see, since by the
>>
>> Yes, there's no dependency on the right side of your example.
>
> Well, there is, its just not trivially observable. We must be able to
> acquire a in order to complete b, therefore there is a dependency.
No. We cannot say there is a dependency unconditionally. There can
be a dependency or not.
L a L a
U a
~~~~~~~~~ what if serialized by something?
W b C b
If something we don't recognize serializes locks, which ensures
'W b' happens after 'L a , U a' in the other context, then there's
no dependency here.
We should say 'b depends on a' in only case that the sequence
'W b and then L a and then C b, where last two ops are in same
context' _actually_ happened at least once. Otherwise, it might
add a false dependency.
It's same as how original lockdep works with typical locks. It adds
a dependency only when a lock is actually hit.
>> > time we would run complete, a has already been released.
>>
>> I will change your example a little bit.
>>
>> W b
>> ~~~~~~~ <- serialized
>> L a
>> U a
>> C b
>>
>> (Remind crossrelease considers dependencies in only case that
>> lock sequence serialized is observable.)
>
> What does that mean? Any why? This is a random point in time without
> actual meaning.
It's not random point. We have to consider meaningful sequences among
those which are globally observable. That's why we need to serialize
those locks. For example,
W b
L a
U a
C b
Once this sequence is observable globally, we can say 'It's possible to
run in this sequence. Is this sequence problematic or not?'.
L a
U a
W b
C b
If only this sequence can be observable, we should not assume
this sequence can be changed. However once the former sequence
happens, it has a possibility to hit the same sequence again later.
So we can check deadlock possibility with the sequence,
_not randomly_.
>> There's a dependency in this case, like 'b depends on a' relation.
>> 'C b' may not be hit, depending on the result of 'L a', that is,
>> acquired or not.
>
> With or without a random reference point, the dependency is there.
The dependency might not be there.
>> > I _think_ you propose to keep track of all prior held locks and then use
>> > the union of the held list on the block-chain with the prior held list
>> > from the complete context.
>>
>> Almost right. Only thing we need to do to consider the union is to
>> connect two chains of two contexts by adding one dependency 'b -> a'.
>
> Sure, but how do you arrive at which connection to make. The document is
> entirely silent on this crucial point.
We need to connect between the crosslock and the first lock among
locks having been acquired since the crosslock was held. Others will be
connected each other by original lockdep.
By the way, does my document miss this description? If so, sorry.
I will check and update it.
> The union between the held-locks of the blocked and prev-held-locks of
> the release should give a fair indication I think, but then, I've not
> thought too hard on this yet.
I make the union only If actually the lock sequence happened once so
that it's globally visible.
>> > The document describes you have a prior held list, and that its a
>> > circular thing, but it then completely fails to specify what gets added
>> > and how its used.
>>
>> Why does it fail? It keeps them in the form of hlock. This data is enough
>> to generate dependencies.
>
> It fails to explain. It just barely mentions you keep them, it doesn't
> mention how they're used or why.
Okay. I need to explain more about that.
>> > Also, by it being a circular list (of indeterminate, but finite size),
>> > there is the possibility of missing dependencies if they got spooled out
>> > by recent activity.
>>
>> Yes, right. They might be missed. It means just missing some chances to
>> check a deadlock. It's all. Better than do nothing.
>
> Sure, but you didn't specify. Again, the document is very ambiguous and
> ill specified.
Yes, I need to supplement the latter half as you said. I will do it.
>
>> > The document has an example in the section 'How cross release works'
>> > (the 3rd) that simply cannot be. It lists lock action _after_ acquire,
>>
>> Could you tell me more? Why cannot it be?
>
> Once you block you cannot take more locks, that simply doesnt make
> sense.
No. Peter.. lockdep check possibilities. All lockdep operations are
performed assuming this same sequence can happen again later but in
a little bit different order between more than two contexts so that actual
deadlock can happen then.
No doubt, it cannot take more locks while blocked at the time. But it's
not important for lockdep to work.
>> > but you place the acquire in wait_for_completion. We _block_ there.
>> >
>> > Is this the general idea?
>> >
>> > If so, I cannot see how something like:
>> >
>> > W a W b
>> > C b C a
>>
>> I didn't tell it works in this case. But it can be a future work. I'm not
>> sure but I don't think making it work is impossible at all. But anyway
>> current implementation cannot deal with this case.
>
> +4. 'crosslock a -> crosslock b' dependency
> +
> + Creating this kind of dependency directly is unnecessary since it can
> + be covered by other kinds of dependencies.
>
> Says something different, doesn't it?
Really sorry. I made you much confused. I will update it.
>> > On the whole 'release context' thing you want to cast lockdep in, please
>> > consider something like:
>> >
>> > L a L b
>> > L b L a
>> > U a U a
>> > U b U b
>> >
>> > Note that the release order of locks is immaterial and can generate
>> > 'wrong' dependencies. Note how on both sides a is released under b,
>>
>> Who said the release order is important? Wrong for what?
>
> Well, again, you mention 'release context' without actually specifying
> what you mean with that.
>
> L a
> L b
> U b
>
> and
>
> L a
> L b
> U a
>
> Here the unlocks obviously have different context. Without further
> specification its simply impossible to tell what you mean.
I mentioned what the release context means in the document. Or
I don't understand what you are asking now.
--
Thanks,
Byungchul
