Linux-Misc Digest #675, Volume #20 Thu, 17 Jun 99 17:13:18 EDT
Contents:
What distros with what libCs? (Tom Alsberg)
Re: ftape fails on SuSE 6.1 (2.2.7 kernel) (Allen Ashley)
Re: What exactly is the SUID flag? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: editorial: Stupid Microsoft Tricks
Re: Suse 6.1 and ftp - connection refused (Peter Wyzlic)
Re: how to go online? ("Kerry J. Cox")
Re: Good Linux books
Re: vfat question (Marc Mutz)
Re: Samba and win95/nt (9wands)
Re: Booting Redhat ("Art S. Kagel")
Re: first/second/third world (Anthony Ord)
New Linux Website (Kent Kling)
Re: Linux&PHP+NT&Oracle (P.A.M. Dirac)
Re: Shutting down as a normal user.. (Dr Vincent C Jones PE)
Re: Commercially speaking....? (9wands)
Re: Post compile tweaks........?? (Larry)
Re: Secure network-backup via nfs? (Frank Sweetser)
Re: Could Microsoft Cheat On The New Mindcraft Benchmark? (was: Mindcraft Retest
News (Philip Brown)
Re: SUID programs: are they normal? (Ben Slusky)
Re: SUID programs: are they normal? (Ben Armstrong)
Re: What are the differences between mySQL and mSQL? ("Anthony W. Youngman")
Re: Q: Is Oracle8 for Linux Free (9wands)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tom Alsberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: What distros with what libCs?
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:38:29 +0300
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi there... I am considering to buy many Linux distros to choose the
one that best fits me, wondering if anyone knows of a complete list of
Linux distros and their libc versions? which libc does the following
Linux distros use?:
Red Hat 6.0
Debian 2.1
Linux Pro 5.4
Mandrake 6.0
Caldera 2.2
Slackvare 4.0
SuSE 6.1
TurboLinux 3.0.1
Any information greatly appreciated,
Tom Alsberg (Yes, Zoopee)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Allen Ashley)
Subject: Re: ftape fails on SuSE 6.1 (2.2.7 kernel)
Date: 17 Jun 1999 19:29:15 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob Komar) writes:
>Allen Ashley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>: I recompiled the kernel enabling ftape QIC-80 support and
>: my system does not recognize any mt commands or direct operations
>: on /dev/rft0. The boot messages indicate that ftape is installed
>: and initialized, but I get the error message "Operation not
>: supported by device" when I try to access /dev/rft0.
>:
>: I tried compiling the kernel with and without zftape and
>: the results were not changed.
>:
>Try using /dev/qft0 instead of /dev/rft0. /dev/rft0 is only
>for reading tapes written with the old ftape drivers now.
Thanks for the suggestion, but there are no /dev/qft[01]
In any case, I tried reading a tape created under an
older version of ftape which used rft0, and I still got
the error message.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: What exactly is the SUID flag?
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:38:57 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> (snip)...(What is the SUID flag?). I think I pretty much know the
> answer but I'm not sure. my unexperienced view is simply a program
that
> has root permissions, and only root can setUID (otherwise - Linux
would
> be 100% insecure, wouldn't it?). But I am looking for a more exact and
> expanded answer...
Almost. A setUID program executes under the effective UID (and thus
permissions) of its owner. This is often root, but need not be so.
You might, for example, have a database owned by one particular
user, and only permit access to the underlying files through
programs owned by that user.
You can do the same thing with groups (setGID).
This isn't Linux-specific. All versions of Unix do this. Many other
OSs have some facility for doing things under amplified privilege,
like installed images under VMS.
--
Laura Halliday VA3LDH "Que les nuages soient notre pied
Grid: FN03gs a terre..." - Hospital/Shafte
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Re: editorial: Stupid Microsoft Tricks
Date: 17 Jun 1999 20:34:03 GMT
On 15 Jun 1999 06:20:05 GMT, Bill Unruh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Latenar
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>>
>>> When I bought my computer, HP included a bunch of software that I never
>>> use. Where is my refund for all of this software? Furthermore, I am a
>
>Unfortunately for this argument, MS includes what they call a license
>withtheir software, which claims that you must agree to the terms of the
>license that if you do not your should return the software for a refund.
>Now, one could argue that the terms of this "license " are invalid as it
>tries to bind the purchaser to terms of an agreement after the fact.
want to have a little fun? use the 'restore' CD that came with your PC and
use it to 'restore' your computer...
when the computer reboots, and you come to the M$ dialog that asks you to
'accept' the licensing, click 'no' (or 'disagree' or 'p*ss off' or
whatever)...
your machine, desktop or laptop, will die instantly...
this is what is going to happen to M$ when we all decline the licensing
agreements...
in my case, i just use the entire hard drive, and just say "No."
(and yes, i hacked the Subject: line)
Linux - It's All Good!(tm)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Wyzlic)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Suse 6.1 and ftp - connection refused
Date: 17 Jun 1999 19:47:20 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:36:12 -0500, j. land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The ftp on my suse system is out to lunch. While it will accept connections
>from the local host it will not accept connections from remote systems. Have
>installed wu.ftpd, proftpd, and the standard ftpd. Have started each using
>inetd, tcpserver, and as indivdual daemons. Have used same ftpaccess etc.
>files as on working systems. All hosts are listed in DNS and Hosts files.
>Other services connect fine such as Telnet, SMTP, etc. This is not a routing
>or name resolution issue.
Perhaps a malicious entry in the ftpaccess file?
>It acts as though there is no service listening on the FTP port. Any
>suggestions as to what to look at.
check with
telnet localhost 21
from the localhost and
telnet susehost 21
from a remote host.
Peter
--
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
rearranging their prejudices." -- William James
------------------------------
From: "Kerry J. Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how to go online?
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:41:21 +0000
Are you attached to a network or are you using a modem? Do you normally log
into an ISP? I have some instructions on getting your modem hooked up to your
ISP at the following URL:
http://quasi.vii.com/linux/tips.html
Let me know if you need further assistance.
KJ
--
.-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-.
| Kerry J. Cox Vyzynz International Inc. |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Administrator |
| (801) 596-7795 http://www.vii.com |
| ICQ# 37681165 http://quasi.vii.com/linux/ |
`-------------------------------------------------------'
Andromeda wrote:
> Hi..
> I installed Red Hat Linux 6.0 using a network installation everything went
> fine.
> now when I boot into Linux I can't access the internet, I read every how-to
> on this subject I still can't fix my problem. I have a cable modem, it was
> working fine with the installation now it doesn't.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Thank You.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Good Linux books
Date: 17 Jun 1999 20:41:51 GMT
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:48:25 -0400, coffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>jik- wrote:
>
>> amp wrote:
>> >
>> > I've recently installed Red Hat 5.2 on a spare computer at home.
>> > Problem is, I'm a Linux newbie. I bought _Red_Hat_Linux_Unleashed_.
>> > It's going to make a nice door-stop. What are some good books for doing
>> > real-world kinda stuff (e.g. connecting to my ISP).
>> >
>> http://sunsite.unc.edu/LDP/
>
>The Que books on linux are pretty good. Lots of practical applications /
>hints and such in them.
>
>"Simple Solutions, Essential Skills - Using Linux" Que books by Bill Ball
>732 pages
in all fairness (since i wrote both books), i'd recommend a later edition
of other Linux books, although i still use manual PPP scripts (as outlined
in Using Linux) to connect to my ISP
Red Hat's netcfg tool will handily set up a PPP connection... you can also
try the xisp client for X11...
one of easiest to use PPP tools is kppp, included with KDE... you'll find
KDE included with Red Hat 6.0, Mandrake 6.0 and Caldera 1.3 and 2.2
i view getting a working PPP connection as one of the five essentials of a
succesful Linux install (besides installation, a working X11, sound
configuration, and printing)
don't give up!
hth
>
>
>--
>SPAM NOTICE:
>My email address is actually coffee (at) indy.net
>You can also reach me via icq @ 1614986
>"When its absolutely, Positivly has to run - Linux!"
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:39:16 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: vfat question
Charles Wilkins wrote:
>
> How do you do a change directory to a vfat directory that has a space
> in it.
>
> I do a ls -l and get a directory such as My documents.
> then I do a cd My Documents and get an error.
>
> I use a utility such as mc and it can move throught the directories
> with no problem.
>
> How can I from the command line?
>
Why vfat? ext2fs can also do this... :-)
Marc
------------------------------
From: 9wands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Samba and win95/nt
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:39:12 -0500
"Matthew D. Melbert" wrote:
>
> After trying to get Samba set up in COL2.2 I finally was able to see the
> Icon in the win95 Network Neighborhood. So I thought I was home
> free...right?? WRONG..anyway, I can see the computer in the Network
> Neighborhood (win95 of course) and log into it. From there it gives me a
> "Public" directory and a directory with my username. When I try to open
> any of those directories I need to enter another password. Here is where I
> run into a problem. I get a "The Password is incorrect. Please try again"
> message. I try and enter every password that I know of under the sun..and
> nothing works. Is there a "*.conf" that I need to modify on the Linux
> machine for passwords?? I have no idea what is going wrong. Please help
> me with any ideas.
>
> Matthew D. Melbert
>
> ************************************
> Intern
> System Developement Group
> ***********************************
Basically, you need to make sure that your Samba Server and your
Win9x/NT machines are all speaking the same "language" (encrypted
(Windows) vs. plain-text (Unix) passwords). You can either tell Samba
to use encrypted passwords (see, /usr/doc/samba-x.xx/Encryption.txt, I
think), or enable plain text passwords on the Win machines by manually
editing the registry on each machine. Then make sure that you have an
account on the Linux box that has the same password you use on your Win
machine. Finally, make sure the username appears in /etc/smbusers, and
that you set the account's password in smbpasswd (see the docs ... they
are voluminous, but complete). Now, after you restart the samba server,
you should be able to open the public directory and you .home.username
directory. Beyond that, I can't help you. I haven't figured out how to
enable browsing of the server from a Windows-based workstation yet.
Regards,
--
Beware the fury of a patient man.
- John Dryden
------------------------------
From: "Art S. Kagel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Booting Redhat
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:22:46 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
My memory brings up something about the BIOS not being able to boot
from a partition that extends past, or starts beyond, the first 1024
cylinders. You may need to partition that drive into multiple
filesystems where at least the root FS is in the first 1024 cylinders.
Art S. Kagel
Chad Lavy wrote:
>
> I installed Redhat 6.0 on an older machine I have. I can't seem to get it
> to boot from the hardrive, so I'm having to run from a floppy.
>
> When trying to boot from the hard drive, lilo tries to start but letters LIL
> only appear before it hangs.
>
> One thing I'm thinking might be a problem is that my bios will only
> recognize up to 8Gigs and I just dropped a 13Gig hardrive in there. Linux
> (once it's up and running) has no problem seeing the whole thing though.
>
> Is there a way to troubleshoot the boot sector and lilo without having to
> reinstall?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Chad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: first/second/third world
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:12:56 GMT
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:26:43 +0100, "Shamsuddin, Amir
(EXCHANGE:MDN05:7E24)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm going to chuck another $0.02 down the bottomless well known as "offtopic":
>
>First / Second / Third world refer to the order in which they developed modern
>technology and associated cultures. Obviously this is insulting, but I didn't
>make it up.
Now all you need to do is define modern.
Regards
Anthony
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kent Kling)
Subject: New Linux Website
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:41:00 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.economite.com
We are looking for feedback on the website, people who want to write
Linux tips, answer questions and basically promote Linux.
The site is continually under construction, give it a look!
K. Kling
economite.com, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: P.A.M. Dirac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux&PHP+NT&Oracle
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:14:15 GMT
In article <7k90b9$ujh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello,
> We use a Linux server with Apache & PHP3 and an NT server with
Oracle8.
> Is there any wise soul who could tell us what we need to do in order
to
> get the data from the Oracle database to the php-generated pages.
>
> -Chad
>
There's a very good PHP/db tutorial at:
http://cs.sau.edu/~cfisher/uw/018.html
which is Postgres-specific, but you should be able to easily adapt the
ideas to your Oracle situation.
FWIW.
Bob Lynch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Shutting down as a normal user..
Reply-To: Dr Vincent C Jones PE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dr Vincent C Jones PE)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:33:19 -0400
In article <7kavdo$jri$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Anthony DeLuca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> How come I can't shutdown or reboot as a normal user. This is my home
>> machine....I am told that shutdown is not an available command... I
>even
>> tried su shutdown -h now.... and it still didn't work...Thanks in
>> advance..
>
>I enabled SUID on /sbin/shutdown. I'm the only one who uses
>the system, and it's not on a network. Nor is it likely
>to be for the forseeable future...
>--
>Laura Halliday VA3LDH "Que les nuages soient notre pied
>Grid: FN03gs a terre..." - Hospital/Shafte
shutdown is normally in /sbin which is NOT on a normal user's search
path but is on roots. Try "/sbin/shutdown" rather than "shutdown" and it
should work (or at least give you a permissions error rather than file
not found error). Change the path if shutdown is somewhere else in your
distribution, of course, and try to use sudo rather than SUID to solve
the permission problems.
--
Dr. Vincent C. Jones, PE Expert advice and a helping hand
Computer Network Consultant for those who want to manage and
Networking Unlimited, Inc. control their networking destiny
14 Dogwood Lane, Tenafly, NJ
http://www.networkingunlimited.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 201 568-7810 Fax: +1 201 568-6626
------------------------------
From: 9wands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.msdos.misc,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Commercially speaking....?
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:45:18 -0500
John Winters wrote:
>
> In article <01beb30a$78d2fa50$0100a8c0@sahara>,
> Robert Zanatta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip]
> >Wrong. Once control is passed on to any code, and it takes control of the
> >system and it's functionality (memory allocation, I/O, etc.), then it is an
> >OS.
>
> I hold no brief in the W9x is/isn't an OS/DOS debate but this is
> blatant nonsense. Just taking control of the hardware in no way
> qualifies a program as being an OS. By this reasoning every C64
> game is an OS.
>
> John
> --
> John Winters. Wallingford, Oxon, England.
>
> The Linux Emporium - a source for Linux CDs in the UK
> See <http://www.polo.demon.co.uk/emporium.html>
Actually, according to the definition given above, a C-64 game cartridge
is a whole lot closer to being an OS than ANY Windows or Linux
application. The game program takes DIRECT control of the hardware (it
HAS to in order to do *really neat stuff*(TM) ...
Any modern OS has so many layers of abstraction built between an
application and the hardware that, in at least ONE case I'm aware of
(Win NT4) there is no way to write a program that directly addresses the
hardware without resorting to bare assembly code (a la the C-64 game).
The truth of the matter is that Win9x/NT is a GUI layered on top of a
highly complex OS, much like Linux and X.
Regards
--
Beware the fury of a patient man.
- John Dryden
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry)
Subject: Re: Post compile tweaks........??
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 17 Jun 1999 14:45:09 -0600
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:58:21 -0700, Danie in Oregon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>And just what IS THE KOSHER way
>
>to do a compile on a VIRGIN source tree...
>
>I asked three different people got three completely different answers...
make config
make dep
make clean
make zImage
make modules
make modules_install
move zImage to boot directory
edit /etc/lilo.conf if necessary
move /usr/src/linux/System.map to /boot
run lilo
This is what I have been using for several years now, VIRGIN source tree or
not. You won't go wrong.
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Secure network-backup via nfs?
Date: 17 Jun 1999 13:05:14 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > My question is: How can I backup all the servers in a secure way, by
> > > using the host to which the DAT is connected?
> >
> > tar zcf - /filesystem-name | ssh dat-host dd bs=10240 of=/dev/st0
>
> The problem with this approach is that I woulp prefer to use BRU for
> backups. While you can use BRU in the way yo use tar, it means that you
> lose some of the builtin error-checking BRU does. It seems this solution
> makes it impossible to verify the backup. I want to be 100% sure my
> backup is ok.
hrm... if BRU can use rsh to talk to remote tape drives, then once the
no-pasword login is set up, simply make rsh a symlink to ssh, and it should
just magically work.
> Also I would prefer to initiate the backup from the dat-machine. Would
> that be possible using something like:
>
> ssh remote-host tar /filesystem-name | dd bs=10240 of=/dev/st0
yup.
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.5 i586 | at public servers
"I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development
That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you."
(By Vance Petree, Virginia Power)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.networking,omp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix
Subject: Re: Could Microsoft Cheat On The New Mindcraft Benchmark? (was: Mindcraft
Retest News
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 17 Jun 1999 20:58:38 GMT
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:07:43 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>...
> That's likely because once you've gotten to single machines
> that NT is supposed to scale better on you're in Sun
> UltraSparc Enterprise territory in terms of price.
>
depends.
a quad-CPU pentium is still a lot cheaper than a comparable quad sparc box.
damn, sparc CPUs are *EXPENSIVE*....
I mean, a good pentium cpu is $1000, but a good sparc can be $3000 or more.
ugh.
So if there is something that is highly [non-FP] CPU-based, an intel+solaris
box is still more cost effective than a sparc box.
--
[Trim the no-bots from my address to reply to me by email!]
[ Do NOT email-CC me on posts. Pick one or the other.]
--------------------------------------------------
The word of the day is mispergitude
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ben Slusky)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.security
Subject: Re: SUID programs: are they normal?
Date: 17 Jun 1999 17:27:27 GMT
Ben Armstrong ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Without specific examples of why suidperl/sperl are good or bad, it is
: hard to make an informed decision based on just these comments.
Ok...
suidperl/sperl (they're the same thing; on my RedHat machine they're
hardlinks) is invoked when you run a setuid or setgid Perl script. It
automatically enables taint-checking, as well as /dev/fd checks (in the
process making sure you're running an actual script, not just giving
it stuff on the command line). 'man perlsec' for more details.
This is one of the things Perl is good for: situations when you want
a setuid program that would be clumsy to write in C and dangerous to
write in shell. Unless you're sure that you're never going to use a
setuid Perl script (and I wouldn't be too sure), don't delete
these.
--
Ben Slusky | There's no such thing as a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | stupid question, only stupid
"will program for food" | people.
PGP keyID E2C2D949 | www.userfriendly.org
------------------------------
From: Ben Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SUID programs: are they normal?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:30:52 GMT
In comp.os.linux.security Ben Slusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Khalili ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : >/usr/bin/suidperl
> : Ick. I'd remove it from my system.
> : >/usr/bin/sperl5.00503
> : Same deal as suidperl.
> I recommend you keep those... They can be rather useful, and are quite
> secure.
Without specific examples of why suidperl/sperl are good or bad, it is
hard to make an informed decision based on just these comments.
I tried marking perl-suid for removal on my Debian system just to see what
depends on it. Apparently nothing does. Of course, some packager may
have missed some dependency, since this is considered a "standard"
package. But unless they have, it seems it would be fine for me to
remove perl-suid from my system.
The perl-suid package may be "quite secure" today, but all it takes is one
release with a problem in it to spoil your day, and if you don't have an
immediate need for it and would just like it around because "it could be
useful sometime" I'd say keep the CD handy for the day you need it, and
leave it off your system for now.
Ben
--
nSLUG http://www.nslug.ns.ca [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian http://www.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ pgp key fingerprint = 7F DA 09 4B BA 2C 0D E0 1B B1 31 ED C6 A9 39 4F ]
[ gpg key fingerprint = 395C F3A4 35D3 D247 1387 2D9E 5A94 F3CA 0B27 13C8 ]
------------------------------
From: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.lang.java.databases
Subject: Re: What are the differences between mySQL and mSQL?
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:06:26 +0100
Reply-To: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In article <7k79rs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, orc@p.? writes
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Don Baccus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In article <7k1vru$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>david parsons <o r c @ p e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s> wrote:
>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>Don Baccus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>>Not necessarily true. If you have several related tables
>>>>that need to be logically updated at once, the atomicity of
>>>>the transactional model is, well, useful if there's a crash
>>>>while records are being inserted or updated.
>>
>>> Denormalize, denormalize, denormalize.
>>> Yeah, you might bloat your rdb by a factor of 10 to do this,
>>> but disk and core is getting cheap these days.
>>
>>Denormalization is something sane folks do to increase performance,
>>not to avoid the need for a real database engine.
>
> You'd be surprised; once you get away from the database
> pundits and RDB consultants (both types favor correctness
> when it means that more RDB software will be purchased from
> their corporate masters), about every permutation you can
> think of will be used in the real world.
>
> You don't want to think about what people will do to increase
> performance. Running a hot database on a server that doesn't
> do transactions is pretty minor stuff compared to some of the
> things that can be done.
>
>>If you've denormalized checking balances into thirty tables,
>>don't have atomicity, and an update dies half-way through
>>updating these tables, which balance do you trust?
>
> Then you've (a) not denormalized properly and (b) an idiot for not
> using a transactional database for a problem that won't work
> without transactions.
>
And not knowing quite what you mean by "denormalise", I can't say I've
got it right, but I think it refers to the Pick "table within a table"
type thing. Other-wise known as post-relational. Bearing in mind Pick
will still quite happily stick with "store data just once" despite not
being relational, it gets round those data integrity problems, at any
rate.
Shameless plug - MaVerick is the open source Pick project - see my sig
--
Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
'Yings, yow graley yin! Suz ae rikt dheu,' said the blue man, taking the
thimble. 'What *is* he?' said Magrat. 'They're gnomes,' said Nanny. The man
lowered the thimble. 'Pictsies!' Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett 1998
Visit the MaVerick web-site - <http://mvDBMS.click2site.com/>
------------------------------
From: 9wands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.database.oracle.misc,comp.database.oracle.server
Subject: Re: Q: Is Oracle8 for Linux Free
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:05:07 -0500
Christopher Browne wrote:
>
<BULK SNIPPAGE>
> --
> There are no threads in a.b.p.erotica, so there's no gain in using a
> threaded news reader. (Unknown source)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/rdbms.html>
LOVE that sig!
Regards
--
Beware the fury of a patient man.
- John Dryden
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