Linux-Misc Digest #311, Volume #25 Wed, 2 Aug 00 00:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship. (blowfish)
Re: Unexpected daily disk activity... (Robert Heller)
Re: Which IDE linux C programers use? (Robert Heller)
Goosing the Mouse ("D. C. & M. V. Sessions")
Re: Unexpected daily disk activity... (Martin Brown)
Re: RPM crashes my Linux (Smitty)
Re: Anyone reccommend some good books for newbie (Rod Smith)
GUI IDE (WYSIWYG) ("Michael Westerman")
Re: Why so slow? (David M. Cook)
Re: fwd: SuSE Linux 7.0 released (John Hasler)
Re: <click me click me> (Martin Skjöldebrand)
Re: Unexpected daily disk activity... (MH)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: blowfish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ..
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: FWD: Red Hat's CFO abandoning ship.
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:39:08 -0700
Christopher Browne wrote:
>
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when John Hasler would say:
> >Alex writes:
> >> That may be fine with some private end users, but in the real business
> >> world, accountability is everything.
> >
> >In my experience with the business world money is everything.
>
> In my experience, there are so many variations in what motivates action,
> it's insane to try to generalize any single answer of what motivates whom.
>
> For instance, it is pretty common for consultants from "big 6"
> consulting firms to find _their_ prime motivations coming from:
>
> a) Needing to progress up the career ladder posthaste in order to
> get any "corporate rewards;"
>
> b) Needing to bill as much as possible to clients in order to maximize
> revenues, which means that it makes perfect sense to try to
> "spend like a drunken sailor;"
>
> c) Receiving any bonuses on the basis of conformance with project
> plans, with the result that Project Plans are #1.
>
> Several of those things have to do with money in an _indirect_
> manner, but, by and large, actions are somewhat separated from
> "money," so long as enough is rolling in.
>
> All the sorts of motivations that exist may be readily found in business,
> including greed for money, greed for sex, greed for power, greed for
> prestige, just to name a few of the "deadly sins."
>
After all. Money does makes the world goes round. No!?
> >> They'll pass even if you have the best stuff out, if nobody can be taken
> >> account for, if something goes wrong.
> >
> >Just as with proprietary software users who need extensive support and
> >"accountability" can negotiate a contract with the author. Unlike the case
> >with proprietary software, such users have the alternative of negotiating
> >such a contract with a third party: he has the source, the lack of which is
> >the only thing that sets vendor support apart from third party support in
> >the proprietary world.
> >
> >> As far as I can see. All the distros, including the die-hard Debian. Are
> >> out exploiting the GNU-GPL.
> >
> >How could Debian "exploit" the GPL (or anything else)? Do you understand
> >what Debian is?
>
> Indeed. I'd find it interesting just what systems are supposedly not
> "exploiting" anything. It's pretty common for comments like this to come
> from "BSD trolls;" the fact that BSDI bought out Walnut Creek, and
> IBM bought WhistleJet demonstrate that the "BSD world" is not immune
> to commercial attempts to "exploit" BSD code either.
>
I just checked Linuxmall.com. Debian shows up in a box, with a $17.95
price tag right next to it.
Sure. *BSD are making money too. But they do allow the developers to
keep their codes proprietary; just a tiny bit more option for the
contributors- in my fscking opinion. :-)
> >> They're making the profits by repackaging the free stuff put out by
> >> volunteers, who have put out their work under GNU-GPL.
> >
> >Some of those "volunteers" are paid (not by Debian) to work full time on
> >Debian. In any case, we do not mind at all that people make money from
> >Debian. The right to do so is a requirement of the DFSG.
> >
> >Last year I made $25,000 as a direct consequence of my free software
> >efforts. There is no way I would have made a penny from my software had
> >I not released it under the GPL and put it in Debian.
> >
> >> I don't think that's fair to the developers.
> >
> >I think that the developers are quite competent to decide what is fair to
> >them.
>
> Indeed.
>
> >> And the way the GNU-GPL is written that, you either have to give up
> >> everything to your claims,...
> >
> >Wrong.
>
> The sentence doesn't make sense; this seems to represent some meaning of
> "claims" that has been made up on the spot.
>
> >> But never mind if somebody repackage your work and make a hugh profit out
> >> from your free work,...
> >
> >A "huge" profit selling software that anyone can sell? ROFL.
>
> Indeed. With CheapBytes and LSL and LinuxCentral around repackaging
> things at eminently low markups, it _has_ to be that if someone is
> paying $40 for Red Hat 7.0, they're not paying for the software, but
> rather for something else...
>
> >> ...where you no longer has any rights to.
> >
> >Wrong. I still own the copyrights on my stuff and only I can distribute
> >the software under any license other than the GPL.
>
> ... Which is the _fascinating_ thing about the GPL, and also the
> most-misunderstood...
>
Maybe I've misinterputed the GNU-GPL a little, but life is a non-stop
learning process. Right!?
I'll re-read the GNU-GPL again. Maybe I'll agree with you later, or
maybe not. It all depends on how you interpute the language written in
the lisence. Common fools like me read differently than bean-counters,
or lawyers... Or GNU-GPL gurus...
- Alex / blowfish. :-)
> >> I don't either. But I'm just interested in this opensource movement.
> >
> >Then you should learn a bit more about it. You don't understand free
> >software at all well.
>
> Indeed.
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
> Rules of the Evil Overlord #63. "Bulk trash will be disposed of in
> incinerators, not compactors. And they will be kept hot, with none of
> that nonsense about flames going through accessible tunnels at
> predictable intervals." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
--
- If Vi is God's editor. Then, God must have too much free time on his
hands,
lives a very boring and unproductive life; so he needs Vi to waste his
time.
Simplicity rules. That's why I use Easy Edit (ee).
------------------------------
From: Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Unexpected daily disk activity...
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 02:38:44 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mary P),
In a message on 1 Aug 2000 23:57:29 GMT, wrote :
MP> quoting a by-now-disappeared questioner:
MP> >AY> > Every day, at 4:00 AM, I experience a lot of disk activity. I have
MP> >AY> > configured a daily backup at 2:00 AM using crontab--but have not
MP> >AY> > configured any other scheduled routines. I can find no scripts in
MP> >AY> > /ect/cron.daily that would explain this activity. I'm running RH 6.0
MP>
MP> I don't know if this would apply to you or not. I was running RH 5.2
MP> and was very concerned about weird disk activity every morning at
MP> 4:04 UTC. I finally managed to catch it as it was happening by
MP> running top, and found some processes belonging to user "nobody" --
MP> can't remember now, but one was "sort."
MP>
MP> Like you, I could find no scripts to explain what I was hearing,
MP> but with help from some more experienced Linux users I eventually
MP> came to believe it was nothing but routine housekeeping my system
MP> had assigned itself.
MP>
MP> Maybe the same activity goes on by default in RH 6.0.
Most flavors of UNIX do various sorts of 'housekeeping' at odd hours of
the day (like 4am). Almost all of the Linux systems I've dealt with do
two things *every* day and one additional thing only on Sunday's:
Everyday chores:
slocate and makewhois.
slocate updates a database for the 'locate' command. This process
involves running find on the entire local file system -- *every* file
gets 'seen'. All of the names are sorted and stashed into a database.
slocate beats hard on your disk. Gives it a good workout. If your disk
is dieing, this could kill it.
makewhois updates the database used by the 'man -k' (aka apropos)
command. The only time it actually does anything is when you install
new man pages (i.e. when you install a new package that drops something
in /usr/man or /usr/local/man.
On Sunday logrotate runs. This rotates the log files under /var/log/.
MP>
MP> Mary P.
MP>
MP> .--- ..- ... - ..-. --- .-. ..-. ..- -.
MP> When a person lives a long time, and then they die
MP> while they're eating a sandwich, they're eating that
MP> sandwich for ever.
MP> -anonymous second-grader
MP>
MP> _
MP> . .
MP> V
MP> // \\
MP> // \\
MP> (W W)
MP>
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
------------------------------
From: Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which IDE linux C programers use?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 02:38:44 GMT
Jerry L Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
In a message on Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:50:17 -0500, wrote :
JLK> On Tue, 01 Aug 2000, Juergen Sauer wrote:
JLK> >Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb
JLK> >am Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:53:12 GMT in comp.os.linux.misc:
JLK> >RH> Luis Yanes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
JLK> >RH> In a message on Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:03:23 +0200, wrote :
JLK> >
JLK> >RH> Most *serious* Linux/UNIX C programmers don't use a Microsoft, Borland, or
JLK> >RH> CodeWarrior type of 'IDE'. Almost all Linux/UNIX C programmers just use
JLK> >RH> command like tools: some sort of editor and a shell window to use make,
JLK> >RH> etc. *Some* programmers use GnuEmacs or XEmacs -- both of these have
JLK> >RH> syntax highlighting and 'electric C' modes. There is also an interface
JLK> >RH> where you can run make as a sub-process of Emacs and Emacs will parse
JLK> >RH> gcc/g++'s error messages and bring up the section of code in another
JLK> >RH> editor window. There is also a gdb interface for Emacs as well. These
JLK> >RH> two interfaces give GnuEmacs or XEmacs *some* of the features and
JLK> >RH> functionality that you are looking for, except generally the GnuEmacs
JLK> >RH> or XEmacs 'IDE's are heavily keyboard-based with only small use of the
JLK> >RH> mouse.
JLK> >
JLK> >I prefer emacs (+etags +make +gdb) roughly on the console.
JLK> >Especially for code we produced by our self.
JLK> >
JLK> >RH> *I* have found that using a point-and-click programming interfaces tend
JLK> >RH> to slow down code production -- the point-and-click interface has too
JLK> >RH> much interface overhead (lots of excess hand movement, distracting 'eye
JLK> >RH> candy', etc.).
JLK>
JLK> This begs a question... When you design a graphical screen (form, dialog, or
JLK> what ever you call it, do you have to compile and run just to see how your
JLK> widget placements look? You don't use a wysiwyg design tool? Do you make
JLK> pencil notation of the estimate of the number of pixels you need to move
JLK> something? Or, do you hand code the x,y, dx, dy values determined by a
JLK> manually designed screen pattern?
I no longer bother with 'compiled' GUI systems (C/X11,
Xt/(Motif,Xaw,etc.), etc.) -- they are far too much hassle (take to
long to prototype and are never cross-platform). I use Tcl/Tk for all
GUIs. Tcl/Tk is a scripting language (no separate compile/link step).
I do use a 'wysiwyg' tool, xf, to degign the GUIs. Xf is actually meant
as an IDE of sorts, but I don't use its features relating to writing
actual 'code', I just design the bare GUI then use a 'normal' text
editor to write the rest of the code. Since Tcl/Tk is not well suited
for serious computation or complex OOP and such like, I code these
portions in C or C++, which I build into a shared library that I can
load into the stock Tcl/Tk shell (wish). I do the C/C++ coding totally
with CLI tools: editor + shell (xterm) window (using Makefiles). I use
SWIG to create the 'glue' code between the Tcl/Tk Scripts and the C/C++
shared library.
When I *was* (in my younger days) using C and C++ coded Xt/Xaw and
later Xt/Motif GUIs, I worked from a *logical* design -- I *never*
bothered with exact x and y placement. Everything was relative (stick
this button under that textfield, etc.). Yes, I did have to compile,
link, and run to see the results. I have 'played' with a few wysiwyg
design tools -- did not like them -- I found I could create a logical
design quicker. I guess I am not a very 'visual design' sort of
person. I guess this is why I cannot deal with Word Processors and
have no trouble using LaTeX to create all sorts of odd things that I am
sure Leslie Lamport never had in mind -- things like poster-flyiers,
signup sheets, model railroad decals, survey forms, etc. -- I am much
happier typing '\vspace*{.25in}' than using the mouse to drag a chunk
of text acround the screen...
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
------------------------------
From: "D. C. & M. V. Sessions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Goosing the Mouse
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:39:17 -0700
I hate mouse acceleration. The nonlinearity throws me
off every time. What I really want is just a mouse with
adjustable sensitivity, so that moderate mouse movements
map to a full screen movement.
Yeah, gpm can be set to report a multiplier, but that just
means that you skip every other pixel or whatever. What I
want is a more sensitive mouse. Rumor has it that some mice
can actually be told to increase their sensitivity.
Any suggestions?
--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a tooth fairy, but whois toothfairy.com works. |
+----------- D. C. & M. V. Sessions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----------+
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Brown)
Subject: Re: Unexpected daily disk activity...
Date: 2 Aug 2000 02:52:20 GMT
It's nice to know that I am not the only one who is up regularly at
0400. :)
--
- Martin J. Brown, Jr. -
- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
NEW!! PGP Public Key ID: 0xCED9BD8A Key Server: http://www.keyserver.net/en/
------------------------------
From: Smitty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM crashes my Linux
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 23:03:05 -0400
Elliot Williams wrote:
>
> This is very weird. RPM reliably and exclusively hangs up
> my computer. Hard to believe, but true! Here's what I've done. Does
> anyone know where else I should look?
>
> I first noticed the graphical packages (kpackage and gnorpm) crashing, but
> not the console-mode rpm program. However, recently I have gotten the
> command-line rpm to hang the computer too by giving it multiple files to
> install at once. It does this when called with roughly >6 packages to
> install, but not with one or two.
>
> I thought it could be the scsi cdrom drive I was using, (even though I can
> read and burn CD's just fine in all other applications...) so I copied the
> contents of an install CD to my harddrive and tried installing those files.
> Again, the same thing. A few files install fine. Many files crash.
>
> By crash, I mean a full lockup. No response from mouse or keyboard. No
> switching virtual terminals, no ctrl-alt-delete.
>
> I've tried compiling a few versions of rpm 3.x and they all have the same
> problem.
>
> Since this (seems) to be unique to me, I would add a bit about my system
> and hardware, although I have no other problems with crashing but rpm.
>
> Abit BP6 motherboard with two Celeron 550's. Not overclocked or pushed in
> any way.
> Two adaptec scsi cards running cdroms and a zip drive. Reliable read/write
> from other programs. Plus I get the same problems off of the hard drive.
> Western Digital hard drive on IDE. Nothing special there.
> 256M micron 100mhz memory, checks out fine through stress tests in both linux
> and windoze.
>
> The linux is Abit's Gentus 6.1, which is a modified redhat 6.1. It is kernel
> 2.2.13. SMP. But I get the same problems with a 2.2.16 smp kernel I compiled
> myself as well as with the abit uniprocessor and 2.2.16 kernels.
>
> I'm running this by Usenet to see if anyone's familiar, but I'm sending a
> bug report to redhat pretty soon. What else should I try?
>
> ------------------------------------
> Elliot Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> Economics Department, UCSD
> San Diego, CA
I believe this is a kernel bug that will be fixed in the 2.2.18 kernel
(under development) and the last of the 2.2 series.
Smitty
------------------------------
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: Anyone reccommend some good books for newbie
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake,uk.comp.os.linux,uklinux.help.newbies
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 03:45:02 GMT
[Posted and mailed]
In article <8m50ek$v3i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Vernon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Guys, I have mandrake 7.1, it is a bit of a pig to setup, so I figure maybe
> a bit of reading wouldn't go amiss, anyone point me in the direction of some
> good books, and or websites?
I've got some suggestions at http://www.rodsbooks.com/books/. (The main
page mainly promotes my own books, and chances are none of those would
be terribly useful to you. There are sub-pages that cover books in
various categories, including introductory, networking, miscellaneous,
and one or two others.)
--
Rod Smith, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux & multi-OS configuration
------------------------------
From: "Michael Westerman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: GUI IDE (WYSIWYG)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:48:13 +1000
What is avaliable
i can prog in delphi, java, vb, pascal
i am ready to start in linux but other than jbuilder i don't know what tools
are avaliable for this.
i am willing to learn a new language eg i have done some c (turbo c++from
dos )
links, documents and general pointers what ever.
please email if possible to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or else put on news group
thankyou.
--
=====================================================
Michael Westerman - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The University of Southern Queensland
The opinion expressed is that of the writer,
and not necessarily that of the University.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: Why so slow?
Date: 2 Aug 2000 03:50:33 GMT
On 1 Aug 2000 22:44:53 +0100, Michael Andersson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I've just installed SuSE 6.4 on my computer. The problem is that it runs
>terriably slow. X-Window take about 3-4 minutes to start and it takes 40 sec
>just to maximize the netscape window. Why?
>I have the following computer configuration:
What kind of video card do you have? It may not be running in accelerated
mode.
Some commands you can use the troubleshoot performance problems:
* Run top to get a display of process CPU usage. If you hit "M", processes
will be sorted by memory usage.
If you'd like to report the results, the command
top -bn 1 > top.out
will put the results in the file top.out, which you can then report.
man top
for more info.
* As someone has already mentioned, you can use
free
to get info about memory usage.
It could also be a problem with disk speed. A rough benchmark of disk
performance can be done with
hdparm -T /dev/hda
The following will turn on 32-bit I/O and DMA on (for IDE drives):
/sbin/hdparm -d 1 -c 1 /dev/hda
man hdparm
for more info
Dave Cook
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.suse,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: fwd: SuSE Linux 7.0 released
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 03:02:31 GMT
Jeff writes:
> ...but Debian keeps looking like a better and better long-term
> alternative. And Potato's due any day now...
Potato is completely stable and usable right now (as is Woody, for that
matter).
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
------------------------------
Subject: Re: <click me click me>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Skjöldebrand)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 03:54:08 GMT
==> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, N/A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
N/A> how do i install xvidtune for corel linux delux. i have other
N/A> software that came with the OS that i havent used, maybe in
N/A> there? i dont know someone tell me.......thanks so much.
N/A> -- Posted via CNET Help.com http://www.help.com/
IF you stoped posting three nearly identical messages to every one of
your questions people perhaps would seriously answer you.
BTW, you did get a response to the first batch of questions.
M.
--
Martin Skjöldebrand - chimbis at skjoldebrand.org
This message was created in a Microsoft free environment
- http://www.linux.org -
------------------------------
From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Unexpected daily disk activity...
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:55:56 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Martin Brown wrote:
>
> It's nice to know that I am not the only one who is up regularly at
> 0400. :)
> --
> - Martin J. Brown, Jr. -
> - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
>
> NEW!! PGP Public Key ID: 0xCED9BD8A Key Server: http://www.keyserver.net/en/
Just to keep the record straight, I'm not really "up" at that hour
EVER. I just don't sleep very soundly and my server is in my bedroom.
It's not loud, it doesn't wake me up--I'm already awake when I notice
the disk activity.
I just ordered a small LAN station that will accommodate my server,
workstation, and firewall boxes all in one compact unit. Once I get it,
the server will be moved out of my bedroom. Unfortunately, to
accommodate the LAN station, I'll need to move my file cabinet into my
bedroom (I live in an apartment)! Still, it will be nice to have all my
computer gear in a single location--and no more cabling running amok!
:-)
--
"For it is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not
true.
In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the
true;
it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false."
-- H. L. Mencken
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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