Linux-Misc Digest #604, Volume #25 Tue, 29 Aug 00 01:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: 2 "new" cdroms under Win98 (David Efflandt)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows ("paul snow")
Re: Difference between 'Mail' and 'mail'? (David Efflandt)
Re: marking 'bad' sectors? (Quentin Christensen)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows ("paul snow")
Re: lp failure (David Efflandt)
Re: Difference between 'Mail' and 'mail'? (Alex)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows ("paul snow")
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Hot Spammer losing account! was: Re: hot ladies posing for you! 8753 (Quentin
Christensen)
re-initialize mouse while X is running? ("Chuck Chargin Jr.")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 2 "new" cdroms under Win98
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:14:12 +0000 (UTC)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:41:25 -0400, Gabriel Gagnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I just buy a new system.. And I install Linux on it
>(distribution Gentus (RedHat 6.2)).
>
>My system:
>
>CPU: AMD 800MHz
>Motherboard: ABIT KA7-100
>RAM: 128M
>HD: Matrox 20G, ATA-100
> Partitions (created with Partition Magic 4):
> 7G: Fat32 with Win98 Second Edition Primary
>
>Extended
> 2G: Fat32
>Logical
> 9G: Linux ext2 mount as "/" Logical
>
> 2G: Linux ext2 mount as "/home" Logical
> 257M: Linux Swap
>Logical
>Graphic Card: Matrox G400 Max
>CDRW: Plextor 12x/10x/32x
>DVD: PC-DVD Encore 12x with Dxr3 (Creative Labs)
>
>My problem:
>
>Under Win98, in Explorer Windows, I have two more visible CDROMs, that I
>should not see.
>
>Before the installation:
>
>Visible under Win98:
>
>C:\ -> Win98 7G
>D:\ -> Fat32 2G
>E:\ -> Fat32 will be "/" under Linux 9G
>F:\ -> Fat32 will be "/home" under Linux 2G
>G:\ -> Fat32 will be "swap" under Linux 257M
>H:\ -> CDRW Plextor 12x/10x/32x
>I:\ -> DVD
>
>
>After the installation:
>
>Visible under Win98:
>
>C:\ -> Win98 7G
>D:\ -> Fat32 2G
>E:\ -> New CDROM
>F:\ -> New CDROM
>H:\ -> CDRW Plextor 12x/10x/32x
>I:\ -> DVD
>
>This problem makes my system very unstable when I try to get access to
>my real CDROM (CDRW;DVD) and this is not interesting to see.
>
>On my old system, I had this problem and I solve it by putting my swap
>partition the last one of my disk. This seems to do not work on this
>system.
>
>So if you have a idea how to solve my problem without playing at erasing
>and installing Linux/Win98 multiple times (by tries and errors).
See what the partition types show as in Linux fdisk. If they are not
Linux change their type to Linux (83) or Linux Swap (82) for that one.
If they still show up in Windows, remove any cdrom devices from the device
list and reboot. It should be able to find and reinstall them correctly
(fingers crossed).
--
David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
------------------------------
From: "paul snow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:18:40 GMT
Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Y_Dq5.536726$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> would say:
> >> As such, while it would be possible to describe all of a system using
> >> an XML document, that would probably be rather useless, as you need
> >> some substrate on which the XML is to be stored.
> >>
> >> In effect, XML _can't_ be the "base;" there needs to be a serial
> >> stream on which to place the XML-formatted material. You need
> >> something below it.
> >>
> >> It seems more useful to talk about that specific "thing that is
> >> below."
> >
> >Okay. Today we have an architecture where we store our programs and
> >data on a persistent medium (usually a hard disk). We could in fact
> >execute directly against the hard disk (skipping the need to implement
> >memory). There are two problems with this approach. The first is that
> >it would be slow. Yet that isn't necessarily the biggest problem. The
> >biggest problem is fault tolerance. If you have a crash, and the only
> >representation you have was the one you were running against, you are
> >simply out of luck. (Like typing byte codes in to a Commadore 64. It
> >crashes, and you end up starting over, typing the byte codes in all
> >over again.)
> >
> >So, what we have done is create an architecture where we keep a rather
> >stable instance of our configuration information on disk (generally in
> >a file system). Then if our system happens to crash, we can turn it
> >off, turn it back on, and be up and running again.
> >
> >We do this, even though we could simply save and restore our current
> >state to disk. Rebooting is necessary though, because we don't have
> >systems stable enough that we can be absolutely sure our image will
> >never crash.
> >
> >Looking at our storage vs. the memory images in a computer system, we
> >see a rather significant drop in complexity. Data structures in memory
> >being far more complex, and executable code being far more complex in
> >memory than that which exists in storage (EPROM).
> >
> >We also see storage showing a significantly reduced amount of change
> >when compared to memory. Files in storage tend to be rather fixed,
> >with few changes, while what is expressed in memory varies widely over
> >time. (Keep in mind, this is all relative! Compared to the return
> >stack, nothing on disk changes much, no matter how we pound the disk.)
> >
> >The point of what I am trying to get across is that storage really
> >serves as a working, dynamic definition of what programs can be
> >executed in memory, without requiring all those programs to be loaded
> >into memory at any given time. Almost everything that ends up
> >executing in memory was defined in storage.
> >
> >This model works very well, as long as storage is more static than
> >dynamic. And as long as storage remains rather simple, without too much
> >complicated structure.
> >
> >How does networking modify the model we have been using? It is
> >complicating the underlying structure. The mostly simple tree (a
> >directory structure) is becoming more of a general net, like a tree of
> >nodes with links into locations in other trees, on other computers.
> >
> >And storage is becoming more dynamic. I am installing and removing many
> >more applications than I was in the early 90s. And compared to what I
> >was doing in the 80's, I thought I was doing too many installations
> >then!
> >
> >One could argue at this point that we have already seen most of the
> >changes to computer systems that we are going to really need. That the
> >rate of installs and reconfigurations is going to slow down. I don't
> >really think so.
> >
> >We can get more stability without requiring major changes to existing
> >operating systems and applications by constructing a "storage"
> >for "storage". In other words, instead of rebooting solely to storage
> >(where if I have a failure, I am really out of luck), I can instead
> >access a more fundamental definition of storage. It is this layer that
> >can make use of definitions of storage constructed in XML.
> >
> >The result is a model that looks like this:
> >
> > X ==> Storage ==> Memory
> >
> >Where X is that "Thing Below" you wanted to talk about.
> >
> >Does this help?
>
> It explains a bit more about what you're talking about.
>
> You put forth the notion of having some sort of storage model.
>
> But none of what you say has the slightest bit to do with XML as
> distinct from other models for storing data.
To quote myself:
"XML is simply a way to describe structured data. So is a database.
Nothing magic. "
> It is easy to _claim_ that you have described some "more fundamental
> definition of storage," but you haven't demonstrated this.
No, I would claim that we already have a "more fundamental definition of
storage" in the form of a set of installation disks and manual procedures.
And a collection of decisions points gathered in one way or another during
what we call an installation process. And a collection of different and
incompatible abstractions for supporting this process across different
operating systems.
I think it is rather obvious if you think about what we do. So try this on.
Today we have
X => storage => memory
Where X is a set of installation disks, and the process of creating the
storage is a largely manually guided process. And this process is generally
unquie to the OS in question.
And it is also obvious that we don't *have* to do it that way, it is just
the way it has always been done. We could provide software in a standard
form so that one logical discription of our software can be used to install
it on multiple platforms.
There isn't anything about installing software into storage that can not be
described in abstract, in one form, such that it can be installed into
storage without an installation program or script supplied by the developer.
Make the description rich enough, and the developer can control what happens
without having to provide code to do it. At the same time, the more
information the developer pours into this description, the more solid
installations become. Which means that as problems are identified, the
description can be updated, and problems avoided.
If the installation and repair of software is performed in an execution
enviornment logically or literally separated from the OS, then such
installation and repair can be performed much more reliabibly. Mostly
because these descriptions do not interact with each other within X like
they do in storage or in memory.
> --
> (concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "acm.org")
> <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/xml.html>
> "Life. Don't talk to me about life." -- Marvin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Difference between 'Mail' and 'mail'?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:29:01 +0000 (UTC)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:11:23 -0700, softrat` <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What is the difference between the user directories 'Mail' and 'mail'?
>What generates them? May they be combined? How? Thank you for your help.
Elm uses 'Mail', pine uses 'mail' and netscape uses 'nsmail'. Not sure
what other mail readers use. On my ISP I just use Mail for my 'backup'
dir of the last 32 messages received through my procmail filter, in case
it drops something into /dev/null by mistake.
--
David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Quentin Christensen)
Subject: Re: marking 'bad' sectors?
Date: 29 Aug 2000 03:35:20 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc, on 28 Aug 2000, Jean-David Beyer-valinux
announced:
>> / is busy
>>
>> messages (something similar anyway). I have had a look at what is
>> going on, and the only thing running is the login shell...
>
>Incredible. There should be a lot more things running, such as:
>
>Did you just assume we knew that, or did you not run a sufficiently
>broad ps? I ran ps -fA to get the above (and deleted most of the
>output. These were just the top few.
>
Um... the second one... I'd only been told very few switches for the ps
command, and hadn't looked further into what it could show because I had been
told by someone else that just 'ps' would show me enough.
>If you really got all the processes, you might have found some things
>in the / partition.
>
>I often get a partition busy message when I try to umount /dev/cdrom.
>What I do is mount the cd-rom, change into /mnt/cdrom, and do stuff.
>Perhaps I then do su root and cd somewhere else. Then I try to unmount
>the cdrom and it complains it is busy. I do a pwd or something and it
>says I am not in /mnt/cdrom, so I am mystified. Actually, my original
>shell is still running in there. I have to remember to close it or do a
>cd somewhereelse in that shell.
>
I'll have a closer look at what is going on now...
Regards
Quentin.
--
My Freeware: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mynx/quentisl/freeware.html
Please don't send me junk leaves! (take them out before replying).
No Silicon Heaven? But where do all the calculators go? - Kryten.
------------------------------
From: "paul snow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:43:20 GMT
> As a wise man said, any advanced technology would appear as magic to a
> primative. No wonder you are having trouble installing software and are
> hoping for miracle solutions. I on the other hand am not a primative I
> understand just how the software and hardware operate. I can assure you
> there is no magic involved. It is technology based on sound scientific
> principles that make the computers work. Do you know that programs can
> exist without computer storage? So your statement that storage defines
the
> software is a invalid.
No, I did not know programs can exist without computer storage.
I would be very, very interested to learn about this new model of
computation that isn't based Turing's model of computation. After all, if
Turing's tape isn't storage, what is it?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Subject: Re: lp failure
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:49:59 +0000 (UTC)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 29 Aug 2000 02:14:11 GMT, Russ Button <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>My host is a PC running Mandrake 2.2.13-7. But the problem is
>really a lpd issue I think. As you might have guessed, I'm
>unable to print. The printer is an HP network printer.
>An HP Laserjet 4050N. Here's my printcap entry for it.
>
>lp:\
> :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\
> :mx#0:\
> :sh:\
> :rm=172.19.0.5:\
> :rp=lp:\
> :if=/var/spool/lpd/lp/filter:
>
>My machine is getting IP address, etc, from a dhcp server.
>The hostname for the machine is "bags", which is configured
>through linuxconf. When I attempt to lpr a simple text
>file the cursor just returns and then... nothing. The
>only interesting clue is when I run lpq I get:
>
>bags>lpq
>Warning: unable to get official name for local machine bags
>no entries
>
>
>My hosts file has no entry for bags of course as the machine
>gets its IP addr from dhcp.
You could still put your hostname in /etc/hosts using any loopback IP like
127.0.0.2. Then your lp will know where it is coming from. I have to do
that because my hostname is for my static ppp ip which is not always
online.
--
David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
------------------------------
From: Alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Difference between 'Mail' and 'mail'?
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:51:22 -0400
David Efflandt wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:11:23 -0700, softrat` <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >What is the difference between the user directories 'Mail' and 'mail'?
> >What generates them? May they be combined? How? Thank you for your help.
>
> Elm uses 'Mail', pine uses 'mail' and netscape uses 'nsmail'. Not sure
> what other mail readers use. On my ISP I just use Mail for my 'backup'
> dir of the last 32 messages received through my procmail filter, in case
> it drops something into /dev/null by mistake.
>
Just an add on...
Kmail also use Mail...
Alex.
>
> --
> David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.de-srv.com/
> http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
> http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
--
============================================
The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
http://www.seti.org/
Registered with the Linux Counter. ID# 175126
http://counter.li.org/index.html
------------------------------
From: "paul snow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:09:06 GMT
Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 02:28:10 GMT, paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> You've got it exactly backwards. Raw storage is just numbered blocks
> >> on the disk. Filesystems are an abstraction created by the OS.
>
> >No, you have it backwards. Where is the OS when your computer is off?
>
> In a pile of bits on the hard disk.
So, your OS is in storage. And Obviously that storage can be changed, so
long as the reasonable set of changes possible are documented. Or the
storage could be inspected against this documentation. Reconfigured if
necessary. New features added. In fact, anything that is documented, from
a storage point of view, can be done outside the OS. Because the OS is
nothing more than just another program, just so many bits on the hard disk.
Why not just give that point up?
All that about how you would have to stop the OS to manage it. Give that up
too. Surely you can figure out at least one way around that. I can think
of several, depending on the OS.
Then you might as well admit that what I am talking about is an organized,
standard form for what we do today. I have OS CDs and applications, etc. I
manually install them. Sure, lots of hand waving goes on, and it can be an
annoying process. But in the end, I transfer the abstract definitions from
this collection of static, issolated CDs into a rendering on the hard disk
of my machine. I supply all the answers to all the decision points.
Suppose the hard disk crashes. I can buy another, and assuming I can lay my
hands on all my CDs, I can rebuild my machine yet again (losing only my
unqiue work, if I failed to transfer it too to some external storage). And
I supply all the answers to all the decision points yet one more time.
Are you really saying no standard form, with a single separate install
facility for a given computer system can be reasonably define that is
equivilant to running a bunch of installs off a set of CDs?
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:37:42 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:sjGq5.21102$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> No, I did not know programs can exist without computer storage.
There have been computers that have a series of SPST or SPDT toggle switches
to provide the bits for the processors word size another series of toggle
switches to provide the bits for the address bus. As well as a few switches
to control the processor's operating mode, such as run or pause, and a few
SPST or SPDT push button switches for thing like execute and load. In
general there were light, often light emitting diodes that corresponded to
the address and data toggles as well as a few statue lights.
While the processor was in pause mode, you could set the toggles into their
on or off positions to represent 1 and 0 bits. To bootstrap such a
computer, since they most often did not have ROMs, you would toggle in the
bootstrap loader program a byte at a time and writing it to the RAM by
pushing the load (or write push button switch) when the address and data
toggles are correctly set for that byte of the program. In some cases
entire operating systems or other software was entered this way.
With many of these systems you could also set the data toggles to the next
byte/word of the program and press the execute push button switch without
having to enter the byte into the computer's memory first or ever.
Have you not ever encountered or heard of any of these system?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Quentin Christensen)
Subject: Hot Spammer losing account! was: Re: hot ladies posing for you! 8753
Date: 29 Aug 2000 05:03:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc, on 29 Aug 2000, announced:
>http://www.geocities.com/increase_income_now
Why would "hot ladies" who are posing for me, have a website
"increase_income_now"???
I'm not real good with filing abuse reports, but sent a couple off anyway
:)
Someone else might be better at it.
Regards
Quentin.
--
My Freeware: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mynx/quentisl/freeware.html
Please don't send me junk leaves! (take them out before replying).
No Silicon Heaven? But where do all the calculators go? - Kryten.
------------------------------
From: "Chuck Chargin Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: re-initialize mouse while X is running?
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:04:14 -0700
Is there a way to re-initialize the mouse while X is running?
I have two systems on a keyboard-video-mouse switch box. When I switch
between the computers the mouse wheel stops working. On the windows
machine I can use the logitech mouse applet to re-initialize the mouse
and get the wheel back. On the Linux machine I have to exit X then get
back in.
I am using:
Linux 2.2.5-15 (heavily updated readhat 6.0)
PS/2 Logitech mouse (M-S48)
XFree 3.3.5
FVWM2
Linksys ProConnect switchbox
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
remove the 42 from my e-mail address to send me e-mail.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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