On Wednesday 26 April 2006 00:56, David Brownell wrote: > On Tuesday 25 April 2006 2:55 pm, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote: > > On Tuesday 25 April 2006 23:04, David Brownell wrote: > > > > > The third state is the problem scenario, kicking in when the driver was > > > statically linked (or modprobed from initramfs, etc), but not during > > > your scenario. > > > > The problem, as I see it, is that too many devices may be initialized at the > > kernel startup. > > That's a fair observation. In the same way, swsusp resumes too many devices > before writing the snapshot. In both cases, it only needs the resume > partition, > not every random bit of hardware in the system.
That's right, and I think we should make it resume only what's needed at some point in the future. > But it's not the root cause of the problem either. The same problem appears > if > the device holding the resume partition gets forced into this "broken suspend" > state. Well, IMO the state may or may not be broken depending on the device, so we should not assume it will always be broken. > > I think we _can_ reset some of them before the image > > is restored, but at least some of them need to be treated more carefully. > > Maybe; but remember they _were_ just reset ... and that if a driver doesn't > know how to re-init a device that it has just reset, then it has other > problems! > It's a common practice to reset on entrance to probe() ... if that works, it's > "just" a simple matter of code cleanup/reorg to let the init code be used if > resume() detects the device hardware has been reset. Agreed. > For example, rmmod/modprobe cycles wouldn't behave sanely ... and it'd likely > break with kexec(). If they "need" careful treatment, that'd seem to me most > like a driver bug ... > > Now, if you have specific examples of things that shouldn't be reset, that > could be interesting. The resume device and friends (ie. controller, bus, etc.). > I don't seem to have tripped over any, and from first principles it's clear to > me there _shouldn't_ be such drivers (modulo bugs). > > If you're going to argue that there are enough buggy drivers around that > we can't rely on them to behave correctly here ... well, we don't have an > example of even one such driver, much less a flood of them. And the thing > to do with bugs is fix them, not coddle them. ;) Agreed. > > > Right: the first two "safe" cases kick in. This is the partial > > > workaround I > > > had identified: dodging the code paths for that third state, where > > > suspend() > > > is being used to put the hardware into a broken suspend state. > > > > So perhaps we should just make them enter a state that's not broken? > > That may be reset for some devices (eg. USB) and something else for some > > others (eg. storage). > > Sure, but I'm not sure what "something else" would ever be. Examples? > Not of cases where something else _could_ be done, but where it _must_ be. My point is that it need not be _necessary_ to reset all devices. We should reset only those which need to be reset. > > > It may help to think of two distinct types of device hardware suspend > > > states > > > (only the first is real, the second is just a software bug): > > > > > > - Correct, with internal state corresponding to what the driver > > > suspend() did; > > > what a normal hardware suspend/resume cycle (not powercycle!) could do. > > > > > > - Broken, with any other internal state (except reset). This is what > > > swsusp > > > currently forces, by adding **AND HIDING** a reset and reinit cycle, > > > because > > > of the extra suspend() call in (7). > > > > Still there are drivers that have no problems with it, so why we should we > > forcibly reset their devices? > > Can any driver can really justify not handling the case where resume() sees > hardware that's been reset? That is, _exactly_ as would be the case if its > driver were only loaded as a module after the kernel booted? I think not... Of course every driver should handle this but that's not the point. The point is whether we should _force_ the reset on every device. > > > My patch/suggestion just ensures that instead of that broken state, reset > > > is used. > > > in all cases ... not just the "driver not initialized before snapshot > > > resume" case. > > > > As I said before I generally agree with this except I think some more fine > > grained approach is needed in this case. > > You've not convinced me of that; might be right, but nothing proves it to me. Fair enough. :-) Greetings, Rafael ------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ linux-usb-devel@lists.sourceforge.net To unsubscribe, use the last form field at: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-usb-devel
