The problem is that i have not read K for many years.
Freedom comes from something that happens when we find separating from thought. Sin is compulsive. It is basically an extension of the pain of inner conflict that is a result of the emotional reactions to the world.....mainly anger and resentment. We escape from the moment compulsively. Forgiveness, in the higher sense, is a release from inner conflict which means there is nothing to escape from. We are not suffering from the conflict.

Roy Masters at www.fhu.com talks a lot about this subject. There is a lot to listen to there.



On 5/8/2011 8:19 PM, Yiming Zhang wrote:
Can we equaute biblical sin or hypnotic enslavement with conditioning in the K
sense?
And is salvation or freedom to be regarded as K's transformation or fundamental
change? But what is forgiveness in your view? Is there an equivalent in the K's
teaching?


----- Original Message ----
From: Merv<m...@dslextreme.com>
To: Yiming Zhang<yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com>
Cc: listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE
Sent: Sun, May 8, 2011 10:02:01 PM
Subject: Re: Exploring the Paradox

No.  I am not a born again Christian.  I have no organized religious
background.
There can only be one transformation though.  I think it is the same.
I believe that the Old and New Testaments have a lot of truth in them.
The bible is about sin, forgiveness, and salvation.  Sin means hypnotic
enslavement.  Salvation means freedom
and both K and the bible intended to lead us there.

On 5/8/2011 7:17 PM, Yiming Zhang wrote:
Are you a "born again" Christian, Merv?
A change of heart in wanting to live a better life in oneness with Christ
is not quite the same as transformation, I think.
Am I wrong?



----- Original Message ----
From: Merv<m...@dslextreme.com>
To: Yiming Zhang<yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com>
Cc: listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE
Sent: Sat, May 7, 2011 11:53:16 PM
Subject: Re: Exploring the Paradox

This is something like the "born again" or "saved" experience spoken of in
Christianity.
In one moment there is a change after which the option of falling away is no
longer there.
Something has changed in a big way.

On 5/7/2011 9:00 PM, Yiming Zhang wrote:
Below is an excerpt of Michael Krohnen's reflection that I would like to
discuss
with anyone who is stuck like him as well as with those on that other shore.
     "As we listen to Krishnamurti and study the
significance of his teachings, we often cannot
help but be struck by what appears to
be a paradox.
     …his insistence on immediate
‘insight’ and hence ‘transformation’, and
thereby his denial of any gradual approach,
appears to pose the greatest conundrum
and difficulty. I have studied his
work for many years, even decades, and
yet I’m still waiting for that tremendous
revolution in my consciousness.
On the other hand, he again and again
urges us not to seek, not to expect anything,
not to set up a goal or an end to be
achieved, however noble and transcendent
it may be."

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