I don't want to go into my life history.
K was also a self help person. Why look for answers
unless you have questions?
If you can't find answers in establishment religion or psychology, you look
elsewhere.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yiming Zhang" <yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com>
To: "Merv" <m...@dslextreme.com>
Cc: <listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 21:04
Subject: Re: Exploring the Paradox
Instead of aiming for an ideal goal such as transformation or enlightenment,
you are dealing with ground zero i.e. your actual imperfections.
Sounds reasonable.
This is what Confucius taught: self perfection through diligent
self-correction.
I understand the inner wanting to be a better person.
(Both Vernon Howard and Roy Masters are basically self-help gurus.)
What is the motivation for doing this?
Could you tell what was the way (you were) that you would never go back to,
just so I understand correctly what you mean?
----- Original Message ----
From: Merv <m...@dslextreme.com>
To: Yiming Zhang <yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com>
Cc: listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE
Sent: Tue, May 10, 2011 7:48:15 PM
Subject: Re: Exploring the Paradox
I have made progress and would never stop and go back to the way I was.
To whatever extent I hold on to my wrong ways, I know more awareness, and a
better connection is needed
and I have faith that it will come.
To a large degree progress is measured from where we were.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yiming Zhang"
<yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com>
To: "Merv" <m...@dslextreme.com>
Cc: <listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 09:22
Subject: Re: Exploring the Paradox
I wonder if our interest in the things K said is a cultural conditioning.
Even though we kick each other around in this forum, we do share the same
interest.
We understand the concepts and aspirations of people who want a better
world.
Does that mean anything of value or are we another sub-culture, an interest
group?
Krohnen's paradox is the very thing that keeps our interest alive: we want
transformation
that can never be gotten. And the more befuddling it is, the more obsessed
we
are in
sorting out the damn Rubic Cube.
But tell me, have you made any progress worth sharing after all these years?
----- Original Message ----
From: Merv <m...@dslextreme.com>
To: Yiming Zhang <yiming_zhang2...@yahoo.com>
Cc: listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE
Sent: Sat, May 7, 2011 11:32:05 PM
Subject: Re: Exploring the Paradox
This is what I think is true about that:
Different people discover things in different amounts of time. Some are
ready
now and some are not.
When something new is seen, it is seen in one moment. For some people the
big
change can happen in one moment. For others, I believe it takes time.
Effort will not cause awareness to come upon us. It comes when it comes.
Making goals and applying effort only slows us down and prevents something
new
from entering. We are either open to it or we are not, and there is nothing
we can do about it except to see it and be pained by it.
There is resistance within. What breaks it down? Hopefully, time, suffering,
and experience.
On 5/7/2011 9:00 PM, Yiming Zhang wrote:
Below is an excerpt of Michael Krohnen's reflection that I would like to
discuss
with anyone who is stuck like him as well as with those on that other
shore.
"As we listen to Krishnamurti and study the
significance of his teachings, we often cannot
help but be struck by what appears to
be a paradox.
…his insistence on immediate
‘insight’ and hence ‘transformation’, and
thereby his denial of any gradual approach,
appears to pose the greatest conundrum
and difficulty. I have studied his
work for many years, even decades, and
yet I’m still waiting for that tremendous
revolution in my consciousness.
On the other hand, he again and again
urges us not to seek, not to expect anything,
not to set up a goal or an end to be
achieved, however noble and transcendent
it may be."
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