1. We are dealing with an electrical fire. (Said to be the most likely type of
fire at the start of the discussion)2. We disconnect the primary electrical
source/s. (Eliminating a possible heat source, and also make it safer to fight
the fire)3. We cannot afford the means to flood the entire compartment with dry
chem or CO2 so we have to apply it directly to the fire.4. We cannot see the
spot where the fire exists because there is so much smoke. (Again said to be
the most likely situation)5. We must remove the smoke and replace it with
air.6. We blow cool air into the compartment because if we suck the hot air we
might melt down the fan or the duct.7. We begin to see the spot where the fire
exists and blast it with CO2 to kill it.8. We survive.Norm might be on the
right path. I will wait for the explanation.
Cheers
Ahmet
SV8827
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 17:01:13 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Re: [Liveaboard] FW: RE: TWL2:) Re: ReliablityIn my Captains class we spent a
good portion of day discussing this. We also had a professional Firefighter in
class too. He was a nut about the triangle! Which is why I brought it up. As
for how one should put out a fire in the engine room... The books say an
extinguisher in the engine room, if that fails shoot some in from a handheld
unit from a hole or crack as small as possible to keep the introduction of O2
as small as possible. Aboard Dulcinea we have 2 Halon Extinguishers (still good
so...) one as a permanent install then a handheld next to the stairs going to
the Aft Cabin. And in tose same stairs a clear plastic covered hole (2"?) in
which to shove the tip of the extinguisher into. Hopefully they will never be
used. After that about 5 small hand helds as well to go through as well.God
forbid you need more!!!!! Or that this happens. I have fought some nice grease
fires in ovens in restaurants with fire extinguishers. Scary how the intro of
O2 creates a flare up. Also, Halon kills, while the newer ones don't
immediately so be forewarned as well. I do believe that every owner and crew
old enough to handle a fire extinguisher should use one before needing them in
an emergency, they have a powerful kick when set off.So Norm, I am vastly
curious as to reasoning, way the fans blow etc... as you might have a
position/thought that has not occurred to us.NoelN.Y. RUSSELLOffice Coffee
Service "Java Powered Service"-----Original Message-----From: "Rosalie B."
Sent: Fri, 03 October 2008 15:56:37To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Liveaboard] FW:
RE: TWL2:) Re: ReliablityOn Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:23:29 EDT, you wrote:>Isn't air
(especially O2 one of the 3 legs of the fire triangle? Wouldn't it be better to
cut off all the air instead of intriducing more? Curious as I am always
intrigued by Norm's ideas.>>NoelI was thinking about this too. You are correct
about the legs of the firetriangle. One leg is fuel (the boat itself OR the
diesel in the fuel tanks -diesel is not flammable, but it certainly is
combustible or it wouldn't work asfuel), one is oxygen and one is heat. So when
we want to put out a fire we wantto cut one or more fire legs off. When we use
water to put out a fire, thewater cools, and also may act to cut off the
oxygen. A CO2 or foam extinguisheror a freon bottle cuts off the oxygen. Fire
breaks or non-combustibleinsulation act to reduce fuel.In the case of an
electrical or fuel fire we don't usually use water. Fuel willfloat on the water
and keep burning. But at the same time we don't want toallow the fire more
oxygen so it can burn better. It is true that smokeobscures the fire, but
that's often (IMHO because I am not an expert on this)because there's not much
air there. There will probably also be (with thesmoke) some carbon monoxide,
which is more dangerous than the smoke. Opening upthe engine room to air may
make the fire easier to see, but it may also make itflare up and get hotter and
more aggressive. It will be a challenge to seewhether you can put out a much
bigger fire fast enough when you can see it. Ihave a picture of a man trying to
fight a large house fire with a garden hose.At some point the fire will get too
big to fight.I would prefer to enclose the fire and cut all ventilation off if
possible. Wehave a freon extinguisher in our engine room, but it is smaller
than Norms is.Also with such an extinguishing system, you would not be able to
go into thespace at all as if the fire didn't have air, neither would a
firefighter.>>From: Arild Jensen >Norm a question here. Would it make more
sense to suck out the smoke >or bring fresh air into the Engine room full of
smoke?>>Pushing air into the compartment would mean some of the smoke might get
>pushed into the rest of the boat such as through the open E/R hatch.>>Seems to
me that pulling air from the interior of the vessels and >pushing the smoke
directly outboard might be more effective. And of >course if there is any toxic
components in the smoke, you get it away >from the boat faster.>Arild>Norm of
Bandersnatch wrote:>>> I picked up on the fire issue. >>> snip >>To this end I
have almost completed fabrication and installation of a>> large vent, 4" x 20",
with a automotive radiator fan to blow air into the>> engine room to allow me
to enter the space whilst clearing it of most of>> the smoke so can get to the
fire.>> Norm>>> S/V
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