Ben Okopnik wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 04:50:29PM -0500, ken wrote:
>
>> I use Ubuntu. It's what I'm using now.
>>
>> It does NOT live up to the hype.
>>
>
> I'm curious: what hype would that be?
>
Come on, I don't really have to justify using the word "hype" do I? The
"hype" is on the net for anyone to see if they want.
And yes, Linux based OS's are commonly claimed to be easier to use much
of the time, because they are 'simpler' with 'less bells and whistles'
and are not 'overly encumbered' like Windows, and they are supposed to
be 'faster' and 'more stable'. There is some truth to those claims I am
sure but they are way over- expounded in MY experience, and I am not the
only one who feels that way either.
>
>
>> Also it WILL crash (regardless of what some say) and sometimes when it
>> does it is necessary to start a Windows operating system to get it to
>> work correctly again. What BS.
>>
>
> You're absolutely right. Terrible, terrible BS.
>
Yes. Even my brother, a software systems engineer with almost forty
years experience, agrees with me on that one! <G>
>
>
>> Most if not all video editing programs will not work with it (and yes I
>> mean when run with the Windows emulation program).
>>
>
> Let's see: you are trying to run Windows chart programs, Windows passage
> planning programs, Windows video programs, and use Windows methods ("I
> DON'T LIKE COMMAND LINE TOOLS!") along with a Windows mentality... on an
> operating system that's not Windows. Rather like replacing two thirds of
> a Ferrari engine with Yugo parts, and wondering why all the little red
> lights are coming on.
>
Right. Like Windows...I want it to be simple and easy to use, fast and
stable and easy to install, and be able to run the widest range of
programs available. In that way it would be like Windows, XP anyway.
BTW I get most troubles when I use Linux based programs designed for it,
not just when using Windows stuff, in fact I have far fewer problems
with the Windows stuff because Ubuntut can't run most of those programs
even with WINE!
What I DON"T want is having to digest complicated jargon to do easy
tasks, spending hours of time trying to get simple jobs done, or having
to compromise in functionality because either the software can't do a
common simple task correctly or at all or if it can it would take much
too long to get the requisite software to interface with it to make it
work or because finding out how to make it do what is needed is
practically impossible. I don't want to have to spend much time at all
doing anything Windows can do in a flash...why should I for crimineys
sake? I gotta lot of other things I would rather spend time on.
> [A short pause to figure out a polite way to say this]
>
> Is there a reason you expected it to work, or was this a *planned*
> experiment in futility?
>
Oh, it DOES work! But not NEARLY as well as I would have expected if I
had believed all the 'hype'.
>
>
>> Of course I expect to be 'flamed' for such honesty and openness. Fairs
>> fair I guess. Flame on.
>>
>
> Not by me - although the crude bait in "honesty and openness" made me
> smile.
Glad I could give some 'measure of pleasure'. <G>
> I just find it strange that there are people out there who take
> millions of dollars of other people's effort and value it at nothing -
>
I don't value it at "nothing", far from it, if I did I would not have
put all the time and effort in it that I have (and continue to do so).
Just like although I really feel that Windows has a lot of serious
issues, still, it is better in many ways than other OS's. Still trying
to be honest here.
If you say how you honestly feel about the "Emperors clothes" must you
automatically be assumed to be mendacious? I really was trying to be
honest about how I feel about the OS. "Conflicted" might do well as a
start.
Yes, it works. But it WAS a BIG hassle getting it set up and working
correctly and it CONTINUES to be a hassle from time to time with things
that come up, and getting help from the on line forums is very tedious
or is just not all that useful many times, and it is NOT faster and for
sure not easier, but it IS somewhat more stable and is a LOT more
secure. OK?
> not even as worth spending the effort to learn how to use this amazing
> resource - and then decide that the way to get around their ignorance is
> to scream and demand, as loudly and as offensively as possible, in the
> hope that someone will come along and spend *their* effort to say
> "please, please stop screaming. I'll give you a magical FREE solution to
> all your problems if you just stop insulting us!"
>
When cars were new, folks put up with a lot. It was difficult and took
skill and experience to start a Model T compared to a modern car. But
folks "screamed and demanded" (literally) and many times went AGAINST
the wishes of those 'in charge' such as Henry Ford or in our days Bill
Gates, and things DID change *because folks demanded it*, electric
starters were introduced, automatic timing advances were used, the risk
of broken wrists decreased and all was well.
But I bet there were some folks back then who said "you cry babies,
there is nothing wrong with cars the way they are, just get used to it".
I would NOT have been one of those who were satisfied with the way
things were, and I probably would have said as much.
I know that some felt "insulted" way back then when the cars they all
drove were found to be lacking by many and were justly and properly
criticized. That did not mean that the criticism was un-just or that
those who resented the criticism were justly offended. The truth often
hurts.
I do go further than just the 'mechanics' of the operating system with
my criticism of Ubuntu though, one of the reasons is because an integral
part of the 'hype' associated with it is the supposed 'helpfulness' of
the on line community.
Well, in fact at times it HAS been helpful to me, but at other times I
have found it to be far over rated and I think that needs to be made
clear by those who have had occasion to avail themselves of it.
If some find that offensive I would suggest they should not personalize
my criticism without first doing a little self examination. If after
introspection they believe that as part of that community the effort by
them has been to listen well when needed and try to be helpful
thoughtful and through as well as correct, and to try to provide a
useful solution if they felt they had something to offer without letting
their ego get in the way, then obviously my criticism does not apply to
them and they should not take umbrage.
Otherwise my remarks stand.
> For some reason, I don't see them trying this on Microsoft when their
> files - years of stories, tax records, whatever - are destroyed by
> malware,
OH, I see it all the time from all sorts of folks, a buddy just went
through the roof when I had to tell him his hard drive he gave me to
look at and hopefully bring back to life, was complete toast. I told him
he might think about backing up to a thumb flash drive this time, or
better yet two of them. PROGRESS HAPPENS.
And as I thought I made clear, I hate Windows.
> but you find them in every Linux forum. Could it be that the
> Linux community, due to their welcoming and helpful attitude, looks like
> easier victims? I really wonder.
>
The Linux chorus is something like "you just don't understand how
wonderful this operating system is, if you are having problems it is
your fault, there is no "Bill Gates" for Linux and it isn't OUR fault so
it must be YOURS".
Yes there ARE problems and nope it ain't MY fault!
> The saving grace is that the Linux community is totally aware of this
> kind of behavior.
If as a group they were half as smart...no, no, I won't go that route
;-), BUT they "should" realize the problems are "real" not "imagined" or
whatever and either tone down the claims and/or try to be more
supportive. IMHO of course. Hard to do either without a central
authority, I know. A weakness?
In all honesty, I do think the Ubuntu community moves as fast as can be
expected when it comes to evolving the software given their limited
resources (in fact I think in that area they do a really good job), but
those who promote it and do its P&R and are its 'driving culture' need
to do a lot of introspection and work, not likely to happen because the
thing that gives it its advantage in one way, (a 'free' and open
community) also means it is splintered and factionalized with no
powerful marketing focus, and it cannot get (or cannot absorb) but
relatively little real feedback from the very users the community needs
to attract to really grow and do well in the future. ("Absorbing
feedback" would be a problem shared by Windows perhaps more than they
would like to admit). Many of the potential users hear a few bad things
and don't want to 'jump in' or do so and end up disillusioned to some
extent, and rightfully or not that is not a good outcome.
I know I could not recommend it to most of MY friends, many of whom are
retired air line pilots or doctors and engineers, but who still have a
full and busy life and little time to devote to such things as fiddling
with a PC. They just want it to do what is needed with as little fuss as
possible.
Now some seem to think that I am implying a "have your cake and eat it
too" philosophy, but I don't see why "open source" necessarily has to
mean "fiddley foo".
I realize there are some who have always wanted it to become an esoteric
OS for the "enlightened" or the "true believers", but I don't think it
will thrive long term if those forces prevail.
> Responses range from finger-pointing and laughter,
> through adding the noise-maker's address to the "Ignore" list, to...
> well, expositories like this one.
>
Yeah, yeah I've been laughed at before and will be again I'm sure.
Funny how Open Office has done so well. But then, it works at least as
well as or BETTER than Windows with absolutely NO fuss. Lesson there
somewhere I'm sure.
Think about this; Ubuntu is FREE for goshs sakes...why hasn't it beaten
the tar out of Windows? Huh? What's that you say?
-Ken
>
>
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