I'll try to find the time :-)

Cheers,
Davide

On 20 Dec 2011, at 06:05, Daniel Ingalls wrote:

> Hi Davide -
> 
> Several of us have been chatting about how great your comments and 
> suggestions are.  You deserve to know that your comments are much appreciated.
> 
> Visualization does often need easy customization, so it should be a strength 
> for us.  We need a few more examples.  Also, it has been suggested that we 
> have a few videos showing how easy it is to hook things up to produce a 
> decent visualization.  We have a few of these already working - we should 
> make screen casts.
> 
> I love the idea of an artists' gallery and, for that matter, some other 
> galleries as well -- games, simulations, etc. with a few screencasts about 
> how they were done.
> 
> Installation - we'll see what can be done to simplify this further still.  
> The other side, of course, would be to make it less necessary (or necessary 
> for fewer people) to install at all.  Let's talk more about this.
> 
> Yes, we need a benificent UX overlord -- and the seed page is a great idea.  
> A simple word-less rule-less way to bring some order into our confusion of 
> style, scale and other appearances.  Would you care to proffer a seed page or 
> two, or a couple from elsewhere that you like?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to give us some good criticism!
> 
>  - Dan
> --------------
> On Dec 18, 2011, at 6:06 AM, Davide Della Casa wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I wanted to add to your list of possible users and 'markets' and a couple 
>> more comments.
>> 
>> (I've used "Lively" only briefly, so I might be missing out on pieces of 
>> conversation that make my suggestion here obvious or redundant)
>> 
>> One potential market is data visualisation. Since most data comes from the 
>> web anyways, Lively is in a good position. Probably a variation of what you 
>> list as "mashups". A great example of "rich web environment" that makes it 
>> possible to interact with data is http://impure.com/ by Bestiario. The whole 
>> work of Bestiario is around similar data presentation themes, so well worth 
>> a look: http://bestiario.org/
>> 
>> Also I have a couple of other points, first one being that I think it would 
>> be a good idea to get computer artists to play with Lively, and expose their 
>> work in a "gallery" page. Similarly to what we have done in sketchpatch 
>> here: http://www.sketchpatch.net/Featured_Sketches.html . Artists's passion 
>> is to create interesting content no matter what - they'll be happy to 
>> participate. (I'd look for variety in this case, not for clever technical 
>> demos with bunnies, light sources and teapots. Something crazy like glitch 
>> art or the works of Rafael Rozandaal http://www.newrafael.com/ ).
>> 
>> The second point is much more banal - a simple installation process would 
>> really help. I know it's in the works 
>> http://www.lively-kernel.org/trac/browser/releases/Lively2/install.txt?rev=5826
>>  so it's OK (I did install Lively on my previous laptop and succeeded btw, 
>> but I don't have the time to re-attempt in new laptop).
>> 
>> Last point - I think you could benefit from an evil UX overlord. 
>> Temporarily. Maybe a couple of UX sprints. I see that lively is transforming 
>> for the better and finding its own voice, but right now there are many 
>> places where basic navigation experience feels "punishing" to a first user. 
>> For example most times I get a message "Are you sure you want to leave this 
>> page?" even if I didn't touch anything. Many screens assume that one has a 
>> huge monitor: 
>> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/documentation/overview.xhtml
>>  or the PartsBin as well. Or there seems to be a huge amount of margin in 
>> some of the pages 
>> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/webwerkstatt.xhtml . There 
>> is no top-level navigation on most screens.
>> 
>> I'm no UX expert, but you might want to create a "seed" page, a perfect UX 
>> "seed" page that sets the golden standard, and around which a crystal of 
>> pages can grow. Like, the 
>> http://lively-kernel.org/repository/webwerkstatt/webwerkstatt.xhtml page 
>> with a navigation menu and no extra margin would be perfect (I'd change the 
>> title to the a less arcane "Lively Wiki", myself).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Davide Della Casa
>> http://www.sketchpatch.net
>> 
>> On 16 Dec 2011, at 23:27, Daniel Ingalls wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all -
>>> 
>>> We have had a wonderful few months of growth and experimentation with the 
>>> new version of Lively.  In many ways it has been a sort of "brainstorming" 
>>> period and the results are both delightful and somewhat chaotic.
>>> 
>>> As with any brainstorming session, a useful follow-on activity is to 
>>> classify and critique those results in order to get rid of old things that 
>>> are not needed, recognize missing items that are needed, and to assemble a 
>>> stable and less chaotic platform to serve as the basis of the next growth 
>>> period.
>>> 
>>> This is the kind of thing that is easier to do in one room over a few 
>>> hours, but let's see what we can do with an exchange of email to get 
>>> started.
>>> 
>>> Here are some thoughts...
>>> 
>>> Go through the Parts Bin, grouping things that should be together, making 
>>> things consistent, adding comments, fixing bugs, and getting rid of what is 
>>> not needed.  It may help to think not only of what kind of things we have, 
>>> but also what kind of users we have -- for instance, it might be good to 
>>> have a few 'basic-X' categories at the top for newbies.
>>> 
>>> Put some uniformity in droppable properties:  do we drop the part directly, 
>>> or do we put it in the world and then tear off droppable properties?
>>> 
>>> Make at least 3 more parts bins available.  Until we do this, I don't think 
>>> we are going to see any growth of interesting parts from people outside HPI.
>>> 
>>> Identify a set of 'markets' that we can focus on to critique the set of 
>>> available capabilities and thus the choice of multiple parts bins and parts 
>>> bin categories...
>>>     Building 'slide' presentations
>>>     Doing web mashups
>>>     Maintaining our system
>>>     Simple activities for newbies
>>>     Physics simulations, constraints, etc
>>>     Sound and music
>>>     Games
>>>     Collaboration
>>>     Integration with social media such as Facebook, Twitter and the like
>>>     Phone, pad, and touch support
>>>     ...
>>> 
>>> Identify a set of basic capabilities that are stable (don't change over a 
>>> few months) and reliable (run well in most browsers).  It is essential to 
>>> do this if we want to capture first-time visitors.
>>> 
>>> We don't need to *do* all this, but if we have a vision of where we want to 
>>> go, then our daily activities will naturally lead to better alignment.
>>> 
>>> So, Lively People... What are the three things you would most like to see 
>>> added, removed, or made better?
>>> 
>>> - D
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> lively-kernel mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel
>> 
> 

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