I've thought about your response while I have been looking at other platforms. My circumstances have changed and I need to build a prototype, yes, but one that can be then refined and deployed on a large scale (as) quickly (as possible).
I am not a professional developer. Whatever system I use I will have to learn and likely figure out how to integrate with JS libraries. I wish I had your experience. LK seems like the most natural choice - but only if I can take what I build into production. The only other platform I am considering at the moment is Amber Smalltalk. I want everything going on in the browser and potentially use something like Firebase as a replicating direct-to-client key store. I really don't want any logic on the server. Oh, and I need some lightweight expert system on the client, too. If you were me, what would you do? On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Robert Krahn <[email protected]>wrote: > Lively is a wonderful environment for experimenting. Of course this > depends on what you want to achieve but in my experience you are able to do > quite complex things pretty fast. > > Take this demo for example: > result: http://lively-kernel.org/other/fuelDemoVideo1.mov > building it with wiring parts together: > http://lively-kernel.org/other/fuelDemoVideo2.mov > > It is a rough visualization of a how a car driving along a given path that > highlights the fuel stations the car can reach with its fuel level that > changes as it drives along. > > (The purpose of the demo was mainly to show how such a visualization can > be created using a mix of graphical/textual programming and combining > existing components, not the actual application itself) > > Creating the initial sketch (that was really running of course) was > something that two people (that were very familiar with the system) did in > the course of three hours. Pretty fast I guess. Tweaking things to look > nicer and embedding ideas that came up in the process of building it took > 2-3 days more. > > For the purpose of creating this interactive demo, Lively worked very > well. However, important to mention is that this was *just a demo*. The > application that came out of it not usable in the sense of a software > product as you have to be careful of where to click etc. So a lot of issues > related to the usability of the interface from the standpoint of an > end-user were not addressed. Producing something like a "demo to be used by > others" will definitely require *much* more time. > > Also consider that Lively / Webwerkstatt is used as a research environment > as opposed to a stable development environment like Eclipse. Things look > rough. Interfaces change. Tools evolve. We are currently working on a > version of Lively that is more stable than what you find in Webwerkstatt > (see the other messages on this list), however, we are not able to give any > support guarantees. > > I agree with Jens, take a couple of hours time and try to dig in the > system and produce at least a tiny part of what you have in mind and see if > this feels right. > > I would love to see a new system build in/with Lively :) > > Robert > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Jens Lincke < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Chip, >> >> did you play with it for 2 hours you to try it out, or what are your >> experiences yet? It depends what kind of demo app is required... A mobile >> app? >> >> I think you could try, but be aware that it can be easy if you do similar >> things others have been done, but it can get messy when you want to go >> where no one has gone before you in lively ;-) >> >> Best, >> Jens >> >> Am 10.09.2012 um 15:59 schrieb Chip Nowacek <[email protected]>: >> >> Should I take the silence as: "Stay away from Lively" ? >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Chip Nowacek <[email protected]> >> Date: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 6:11 PM >> Subject: LK ready for prototyping? >> To: The Lively Kernel Mailing List <[email protected]> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I'm sure I am less than 1/10th the programmer of the least on this list. >> I hope you'll forgive the my rather lowly skill set. >> >> That said, I have a desperate need to create a demo app for investors and >> production developers. In your estimation, is LK ready for that type of >> work? I will ask about production readiness later. >> >> While I'm asking, anyone interested in helping out with (what I think >> will be) an important application with long legs? The domain model, 4 >> years in the works, is pretty stable. It needs a compelling, >> highly-interactive front end (thus the LK question). In broad terms, I am >> looking to build a cognitive tool that deals with human relationships. >> It'll also need a mobile app at some point. >> >> Thank you humbly, >> >> Chip >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lively-kernel mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lively-kernel mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel >> >> >
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