How does one know when one 'has something to show'? > > > Gaz
When the Overloads convene with the Cerebrates and the Overmind agrees with them and they give you the greenlight-means-go signal, or at least that's what *I've heard*. :P j/k. On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:05 PM, <london.pm-requ...@london.pm.org> wrote: > Send london.pm mailing list submissions to > london.pm@london.pm.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > london.pm-requ...@london.pm.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > london.pm-ow...@london.pm.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of london.pm digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: cpan you have to see (Gareth Harper) > 2. Re: cpan you have to see (Schmoo) > 3. Re: cpan you have to see (Ben Tisdall) > 4. Re: cpan you have to see (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes) > 5. Re: cpan you have to see (Abigail) > 6. Re: cpan you have to see (Peter Sergeant) > 7. Re: cpan you have to see (Hakim Cassimally) > 8. Re: cpan you have to see (Lyle) > 9. Re: cpan you have to see (Tom Hukins) > 10. Re: cpan you have to see (Uri Guttman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:14:03 +0000 > From: Gareth Harper <spansh+lon...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: > < > cajdz1p_ukzcwxb-ygvk9lvcyrmtgezxqupnn7wv17dxf-g8...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 12 December 2012 17:57, Joseph Werner <telco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Gareth Harper <spansh+lon...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > PBP and I disagree with you on this one, Gareth. When a sub does a > > "return 0;" to a list context, that is interpreted as true. A bare > > "return;" is best practice. > > > > I stand corrected. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:20:30 +0000 > From: Schmoo <schmoos...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: > <CA+C7O_vGohA0HMAesDNeSCGtx5Ny3JiwU2-YBeG4q= > kwqhi...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 12 December 2012 15:57, Uri Guttman <u...@stemsystems.com> wrote: > > On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 02:29:24AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: > >>> > >>> i can't say much about this but you have to look at the code here. > >>> > >>> https://metacpan.org/author/PERLOOK/ > >> > >> > >> I congratulate Alexej on joining the CPAN authors club. Instead of > making > >> fun > >> of him on a mailing list why not engage with him and help him improve? > > > > > > look at his early rt ticket replies. and i did engage him and admonish > his > > attitude. his reply was more normal but he still thinks his code is doing > > something useful and even correct. i will point him in better directions > > later today. > > > > but he should be learning basic perl on his own box and wait for > publishing > > until he has something to show. what is up there is very broken ('#' is > > false in his world) and he doesn't know it. > > How does one know when one 'has something to show'? > > > Gaz > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:27:26 +0000 > From: Ben Tisdall <b...@tisdall.org.uk> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: > <CA+s9Q_=n6JManu= > r1kn18c-thcccs0hrgftzklrw6kbusp7...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Mark Fowler <m...@twoshortplanks.com> > wrote: > > Alexj, I am sorry to hear that. I just wanted to say, on behalf of the > often silent majority, we appreciate all the effort that people put into > their Perl modules on the CPAN. It, as you have just pointed out, can be a > thankless task. So thank you. > > > > Indeed, I do hope you'll forgive the unconstructive responses to your > contributions (which I don't think are characteristic of the community > at large) and that you'll continue to engage with Perl. > > Best wishes, > > Ben. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:30:37 -0800 > From: Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoe...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: > < > can7g7hxn1jckb2hge9snysi4jrgxjb8l4awfitx2msiueb+...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Edmund von der Burg > <e...@ecclestoad.co.uk> wrote: > > Each language has its own idioms and ways to do things. In shell > > scripting the while true ... done loop is one of them. > > > > In Perl the equivalent would be while (1) { .... } > > Actually, it's: while () { ... } > > But not many people seem to remember that. :) > > Programming Perl has this to say: > > Speakers of a natural language are allowed to have differing skill > levels, to speak different subsets of the language, to learn as they go, > and, generally, to put the language to good use before they know the whole > language. You don't know all of Perl yet, just as you don't know all of > English. But that's Officially Okay in Perl culture. You can work with > Perl usefully, even though we haven't even told you how to write your own > subroutines yet. > > And, yes, I think that applies even to code published on CPAN. > If there are *bugs*, report them. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:35:03 +0100 > From: Abigail <abig...@abigail.be> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M\[ou\]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: <20121212183503.GA25786@almanda> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:57:39AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: > > On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 02:29:24AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: > >>> i can't say much about this but you have to look at the code here. > >>> > >>> https://metacpan.org/author/PERLOOK/ > >> > >> I congratulate Alexej on joining the CPAN authors club. Instead of > making fun > >> of him on a mailing list why not engage with him and help him improve? > > > > look at his early rt ticket replies. and i did engage him and admonish > > his attitude. his reply was more normal but he still thinks his code is > > doing something useful and even correct. i will point him in better > > directions later today. > > > > but he should be learning basic perl on his own box and wait for > > publishing until he has something to show. what is up there is very > > broken ('#' is false in his world) and he doesn't know it. > > > The power of CPAN is that it is available to *ALL*. > > Noone is forcing you to use what's there. If you think it's crappy, don't > use it. If it pisses you off people prefer to use a module that you think > is crappy, write something better. After all, most people just want to > fix a problem, and they don't (usually rightly) how it's solved. > > If only code that is approved by a cabal is allowed on CPAN, it will > quickly become something else then it's now. > > > > Abigail > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:09:55 +0000 > From: Peter Sergeant <p...@clueball.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: > <CAHyrgodKxjVrfUvQaYH2Ymy_2Bz5T283sKva-xRd=560iiq= > i...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Gareth Harper <spansh+lon...@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > On 12 December 2012 17:57, Joseph Werner <telco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Gareth Harper < > spansh+lon...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > PBP and I disagree with you on this one, Gareth. When a sub does a > > > "return 0;" to a list context, that is interpreted as true. A bare > > > "return;" is best practice. > > > > > > > I stand corrected. > > > > Don't stand corrected too quickly - the idea that you should always use a > bare *return()* is far from universally accepted - you can bite yourself > just as easily in reverse by using bare return, and getting an empty list > where you expected a false or undefined value: > > https://gist.github.com/4270506 > > The boolean argument is reaching, at best. Perl programmers frequently use > numeric 0 as a false value, and yet no-one is saying you should write code > like: > > sub lock_count { > if ( $lock_counter ) { > return $lock_counter; > } else { > return; > } > } > > "Just in case" someone has decided to take your input in to an array, > before asking if lock_count is true. > > If you're using a bare return then all your returns should be > *wantarray*dependent, or you're making the code even less predictable > - making the > *return* of an undefined value the only context-dependent *return* in a sub > is crazy talk! > > The simple rule here is: write functions that return either a list, or a > scalar, and not both, and be explicit in your function documentation which > you're expecting to return. > > -P > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:53:34 +0000 > From: Hakim Cassimally <hakim.cassima...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: > < > cam-p+0uqj9yvq8rdm4yvra36-vmjk45iwqwjw1+kxmsilh9...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Alex, > > I'm sorry that you've had a bad initial experience of CPAN and now of > this mailing list. > > On 12 December 2012 17:21, Alexej Magura <perl...@cpan.org> wrote: > > As for my rt replies, what did you expect I was gonna say: 'Oh, my bad I > > wrote the worst module in the world and you're the king of all; here let > me > > just remove it real quick.'? Think again. > > The RT commenter who wrote: > > "This isn't python's pypi where everybody is encouraged to upload for > fun whether useful or not. Only upload something if it will be useful > to others." > > is entirely wrong. CPAN flourishes not despite the fact because we > accept all code, regardless of quality, but *because* of it. > > Though it looks like your CPAN code has a few rough edges, many of > them can be resolved quite straight-forwardly, and I see you've > already had some helpful advice on how to do that from Edmund, Gareth > et al. > > Best, > Hakim > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:02:28 +0000 > From: Lyle <webmas...@cosmicperl.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: london.pm@london.pm.org > Message-ID: <50c8e2d4.9090...@cosmicperl.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > It seems this guy is sticking up for himself following the regular LPM > taunts. Shouldn't most of you now follow up with more nastiness, some > insults in ASCII art, then when he gives anything back kick him from the > list? As far as I've experienced, this is how you do things. > > After all, only the cabal should be really be coding Perl. Anyone new to > Perl should be an instant expert, or at the very least, bend over and > hand the lube to the nearest cabeller. > > Then later you should have some threads on why more new people aren't > coming to Perl and this community, and how you can't really understand > why they wouldn't. > > > Lyle > > On 12/12/2012 17:21, Alexej Magura wrote: > > As for my rt replies, what did you expect I was gonna say: 'Oh, my bad I > > wrote the worst module in the world and you're the king of all; here let > me > > just remove it real quick.'? Think again. > > > > *When I call `true()` I get `undef` back (or empty list in list context). > > It should return `"i should stop uploading useless modules"` instead.* > > Is not a valid bug ticket, and it is not remotely funny. Imagine how all > > of you would feel if you had just signed up for Cpan because you thought > it > > would be neat to be helpful and contribute something to the perl > community > > only to have the entire community turn on you. So much for "There's more > > than one way to do it." (Perl's motto) More like "If you don't get it > right > > the first time, never try again." > > > > Since I joined Cpan, I've only received one bug ticket that was actually > > helpful, and I've received four total, to my knowledge. > > > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Alexej Magura <perl...@cpan.org> > wrote: > > > >> Okay, allow me to clarify what the TrueFalse module that I wrote is > trying > >> to emulate. It's trying to emulate the 'true' and 'false' user commands > >> available under Linux. > >> > >> Haven't you ever done something like this in Unix Shell? > >> > >> while true; do ls /var/log/; sleep 5s; clear; done > >> > >> The statment 'true' in this example, as far as I know, only returns true > >> and that's it. It may not look very useful, but it can be useful when > >> you just need to do something and just want to write 'Just because I > >> said so, keep doing A until I say stop.' > >> > >> I'm sorry if all of you think that my modules are poorly written, but if > >> you want me to take you seriously, then say something productive for a > >> change, that is make some suggestions (I'm open to suggestions.) > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:00:14 +0000 > From: Tom Hukins <t...@eborcom.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: london.pm@london.pm.org > Message-ID: <20121212210014.gf96...@eborcom.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:02:28PM +0000, Lyle wrote: > > It seems this guy is sticking up for himself following the regular LPM > > taunts. Shouldn't most of you now follow up with more nastiness, some > > insults in ASCII art, then when he gives anything back kick him from the > > list? As far as I've experienced, this is how you do things. > > Lyle, you posted a rude, unconstructive message. Your rudeness > contrasts with the polite, helpful replies that London.pm members > have written to Alexej. > > If you can't behave reasonably on this list, please take your > delusional conspiracy theories elsewhere. > > Tom > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:05:58 -0500 > From: Uri Guttman <u...@stemsystems.com> > Subject: Re: cpan you have to see > To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm@london.pm.org> > Message-ID: <50c8f1b6.4080...@stemsystems.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 12/12/2012 11:46 AM, James Laver wrote: > > On 12 Dec 2012, at 15:57, Uri Guttman <u...@stemsystems.com> wrote: > > > >> On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote: > >>> he still thinks his code is doing something useful > > > > It is. I had to write something similar to his Boolean module when I > > inherited a fucked up database that had different standards for > > Boolean values in different parts of the code base. Everything was > > stored in a blob column for extra meta-database hate. > > > > Just because you get to work with all of the nice clean code in the > > world doesn't mean some people aren't stuck with the mistakes of > > others. Then again, my primary income stream is writing code and > > yours is recruitment, so it's expected I'm more likely to have to > > clean up messes. > > you still have strange views of my career. i have worked with some of > the ugliest code and team(mis)work in existence. i have recently been > doing perl support of a team where explaining why globals are bad took a > few weeks to sink in to one member. you already made a judgment of my > perl hunting and now another on my main income. i also get royalties > from o'reilly for stuff. i have more pans in the fire than you would > imagine. the reason my perl hunting is so good is BECAUSE of my activity > in perl development, support, training, writing, etc. i can speak perl > to both sides and do a proper match and never need buzzwords or similar > fluff. > > uri > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > london.pm mailing list > london.pm@london.pm.org > http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm > > > End of london.pm Digest, Vol 86, Issue 13 > ***************************************** >