Eric VS ha scritto: > Hi, > > Although I agree in full that LILO shouldn't be required knowledge for > LPIC-1 certification, I don't agree at all with the statement made > by Simone Piccardi, LILO is not at all obsolete nor unused. If you > look for example at Slackware, which is about the oldest actively > maintained distribution and very popular among 'geeky' Linux users, it > still has LILO as bootloader. Slackware is also used in several server > farms I know because of it's high security and specific strengths. > Apart from those facts we should also consider that LPIC certified > professionals should at least know of the existence and be able to > maintain and administer LILO because LILO might still be encountered > in recently installed systems and 'ancient' ones. It would be a grave > error in my opinion to discard 'a choice' Linux professionals have > just because it's not as popular as GRUB/GRUB2. Don't discard a valid > alternative because you don't use it.
Prompted by this post, I was about to counter-argument documenting the long condition of idleness of the LILO code. And I was surprised to read that (http://lilo.alioth.debian.org/) «The development of LILO as classic bootloader for GNU/Linux systems was restarted in June 2010.» And it has since marked three stable releases: release 23.0 on 2010-06-28, 23.1 on 2010-11-04 and 23.2 on 2011-04-09. And I wondered how sensible it is to keep it or to remove it completely. I's a legacy piece of software, indeed. But, no one yet dared proposing the removal of the ifconfig and route commands, even though the upstream code was last updated on April 15th, 2001: https://developer.berlios.de/projects/net-tools/. Some (or most?) of the major distribs no longer carry LILO. I think this matters more than LILO's age. However one could happen to put his hands on an old installation or a custom system that boots from LILO. Yes, this could happen. But it's maybe as likely as having to deal with a 2.4 install with devfs; does this mean LPI should mention this ancient technology, too? I think it does not. Everything boils down, to me, to the question: how old, how extensively used, supported by how many distributions must a piece of software be to be considered important enough to find a mention in any of LPI exam's objectives? I think we cannot find a definite answer to such a question, but we can find a reasonable balance between the special needs of a few and the undeniable exigences of the many. And, regarding LILO, I think we already have an acceptable solution, quoting G. Matthew Rice: "LILO was deemed 'not critical beginner knowledge' any longer. However, an LPIC-2 level person should know how to deal with it." It sounds to me reasonable enough for the time being, convinced as I am that LILO will not survive the next LPI objective's cleanup. Regards, > Kind regards, > > Eric Van Steenbergen > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:36 PM, <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Send lpi-examdev mailing list submissions to > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of lpi-examdev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (G. Matthew Rice) > 2. Re: LPIC-2 objectives french translation (G. Matthew Rice) > 3. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (?ric Deschamps) > 4. Re: LPIC-2 objectives french translation (?ric Deschamps) > 5. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (Simone Piccardi) > 6. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (G. Matthew Rice) > 7. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (Simone Piccardi) > 8. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (Anselm Lingnau) > 9. Re: Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting (Alessandro Selli) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:35:37 -0500 > From: "G. Matthew Rice" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: "This is the lpi-examdev mailing list." <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Message-ID: > > <cafkqhhndfuvetd6jgvjquhfn8goytpqtp497qqgbabsfyhc...@mail.gmail.com > > <mailto:cafkqhhndfuvetd6jgvjquhfn8goytpqtp497qqgbabsfyhc...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Harald Maa?en <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > as much as I know LILO is taken out only from LPIC-1 - not > fromLPIC-2. > > Correct. LILO was deemed 'not critical beginner knowledge' any > longer. However, an LPIC-2 level person should know how to deal with > it. > > Regards, > -- > G. Matthew Rice <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:37:27 -0500 > From: "G. Matthew Rice" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] LPIC-2 objectives french translation > To: "This is the lpi-examdev mailing list." <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Message-ID: > > <cafkqhhnkypfgsapjnezagfpsx7rclih24iiso11ltegg2dx...@mail.gmail.com > > <mailto:cafkqhhnkypfgsapjnezagfpsx7rclih24iiso11ltegg2dx...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:00 AM, ?ric Deschamps <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > As everything is translated, ony half the job is done. Someone else > > should read the translation and fix the mispelled words, bad > > translations, etc. > > > > Any volonteer to verify the translation? > > Hi Eric, > > You may have good luck with a fellow volunteer on the translation > list: > > http://list.lpi.org/mailman/listinfo/translation > > Regards, > -- > G. Matthew Rice <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:29:16 +0100 > From: ?ric Deschamps <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Le 19/01/2012 20:35, G. Matthew Rice a ?crit : > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Harald Maa?en<[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> as much as I know LILO is taken out only from LPIC-1 - not > fromLPIC-2. > > > > Correct. LILO was deemed 'not critical beginner knowledge' any > > longer. However, an LPIC-2 level person should know how to deal > with > > it. > > > > Regards, > > OK, thank you Matthew! > > Eric > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:32:28 +0100 > From: ?ric Deschamps <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] LPIC-2 objectives french translation > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Le 19/01/2012 20:37, G. Matthew Rice a ?crit : > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:00 AM, ?ric Deschamps<[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> As everything is translated, ony half the job is done. Someone else > >> should read the translation and fix the mispelled words, bad > >> translations, etc. > >> > >> Any volonteer to verify the translation? > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > You may have good luck with a fellow volunteer on the > translation list: > > > > http://list.lpi.org/mailman/listinfo/translation > > > > Regards, > > Thanks again, Matthew! > > I just subscribed to the list. Another french speaking person answered > me as well off list. > > Regards, > > Eric > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:41:23 +0100 > From: Simone Piccardi <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 01/19/2012 08:35 PM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Harald Maa?en<[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> as much as I know LILO is taken out only from LPIC-1 - not > fromLPIC-2. > > > > Correct. LILO was deemed 'not critical beginner knowledge' any > > longer. However, an LPIC-2 level person should know how to deal > with > > it. > > > > I still have some doubt having to maintain knowledge about > obsolete and > unused technology. Today this is no more legacy, it's just unused. > > > Simone > -- > Simone Piccardi Truelite Srl > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> (email/jabber) > Via Monferrato, 6 > Tel. +39-347-1032433 <tel:%2B39-347-1032433> > 50142 Firenze > http://www.truelite.it Tel. +39-055-7879597 > <tel:%2B39-055-7879597> Fax. +39-055-7333336 > <tel:%2B39-055-7333336> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 06:48:41 -0500 > From: "G. Matthew Rice" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: "This is the lpi-examdev mailing list." <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Message-ID: > > <cafkqhhnmjkgtql0etnphahdmmvmjpqrbuzzshhppdekuhja...@mail.gmail.com > > <mailto:cafkqhhnmjkgtql0etnphahdmmvmjpqrbuzzshhppdekuhja...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:41 AM, Simone Piccardi > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> Correct. ?LILO was deemed 'not critical beginner knowledge' any > >> longer. ?However, an LPIC-2 level person should know how to > deal with > > > > I still have some doubt having to maintain knowledge about > obsolete and > > unused technology. Today this is no more legacy, it's just unused. > > Hi Simone, > > Your opinion is very valuable. As is everyone's. For example, I > received an e-mail about two weeks ago from someone telling me that > LPI is useless to him now because we dropped LILO from LPIC-1. Here's > a quote from the e-mail (it was private; I did invite him to join this > list and share this opinion but he hasn't surfaced yet): > > /***** quote ******/ > Well, Matt, you've done me a disservice removing LILO from the > exam. > > I don't (and do not plan) to ever install the GRUB Operating System on > any of my hundreds of servers. So now new LPIC graduates will have to > be tested by me. I don't/won't hire anyone who doesn't know LILO. > > I can't reevaluate and change hundreds of systems on a whim. I > continue to install LILO today on new servers. > > Can't believe you've allowed this. > > LPIC now means little to me. If they can't get a system to boot using > LILO, all other knowledge is for naught. > /***** end quote *********/ > > So, time for a cage match? ;) > > Regards, > -- > G. Matthew Rice <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:04:03 +0100 > From: Simone Piccardi <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: "This is the lpi-examdev mailing list." <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Message-ID: <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 01/20/2012 12:48 PM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > Hi Simone, > > > > Your opinion is very valuable. As is everyone's. For example, I > > received an e-mail about two weeks ago from someone telling me that > > LPI is useless to him now because we dropped LILO from LPIC-1. > Here's > > a quote from the e-mail (it was private; I did invite him to > join this > > list and share this opinion but he hasn't surfaced yet): > > > > /***** quote ******/ > > Well, Matt, you've done me a disservice removing LILO from > the exam. > > > > I don't (and do not plan) to ever install the GRUB Operating > System on > > any of my hundreds of servers. So now new LPIC graduates will > have to > > be tested by me. I don't/won't hire anyone who doesn't know LILO. > > > > I can't reevaluate and change hundreds of systems on a whim. I > > continue to install LILO today on new servers. > > > > Can't believe you've allowed this. > > > > LPIC now means little to me. If they can't get a system to boot > using > > LILO, all other knowledge is for naught. > > /***** end quote *********/ > > > > I know some people having systems deployed with kernel 2.2 with a 25 > year support contract, requiring specific knowledge about that version > (and modutils from that time). > > But having specific needs do not means that you can ask that a generic > sysadmin certification to require what you need. > > > So, time for a cage match? ;) > > > At least I think we can discuss which can be reasonable > requirements for > bootloader knowledge you require for a sysadmin. I don't think > that LILO > knowledge is needed today, things like PXE boot are far more > important. > > Simone > -- > Simone Piccardi Truelite Srl > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> (email/jabber) > Via Monferrato, 6 > Tel. +39-347-1032433 <tel:%2B39-347-1032433> > 50142 Firenze > http://www.truelite.it Tel. +39-055-7879597 > <tel:%2B39-055-7879597> Fax. +39-055-7333336 > <tel:%2B39-055-7333336> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:10:55 +0100 > From: Anselm Lingnau <[email protected] > <mailto:anselm.lingnau%[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: "This is the lpi-examdev mailing list." <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Message-ID: > <[email protected] > <mailto:201201201310.56122.anselm.lingnau%[email protected]>> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > > LPIC now means little to me. If they can't get a system to boot > using > > LILO, all other knowledge is for naught. > > I wonder what his problem is with GRUB. Maybe it doesn't fit on a > single > punched card? > > Anselm > -- > Anselm Lingnau ... Linup Front GmbH ... Linux-, Open-Source- & > Netz-Schulungen > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>, +49(0)6151-9067-103 > <tel:%2B49%280%296151-9067-103>, Fax -299, www.linupfront.de > <http://www.linupfront.de> > Linup Front GmbH, Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt, Germany > Sitz: Weiterstadt (AG Darmstadt, HRB7705), Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Oliver > Michel > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:35:38 +0100 > From: Alessandro Selli <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] Exam 202: 213.1 LILO troubleshooting > To: "This is the lpi-examdev mailing list." <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Message-ID: <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Anselm Lingnau ha scritto: > > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > > > > >> LPIC now means little to me. If they can't get a system to > boot using > >> LILO, all other knowledge is for naught. > >> > > I wonder what his problem is with GRUB. Maybe it doesn't fit on > a single > > punched card? > > > > I'm afraid it's more serious than that: it woudn't install on a > parallel-port IDE boot tape. > > Ok, ok, I'll flush that joke down in /dev/shame. > > > -- > > Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net > AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. > WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev > > End of lpi-examdev Digest, Vol 56, Issue 5 > ****************************************** > > > > > -- > *Eric Van Steenbergen* > > /E-mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>/ > /Movil: +34 626 670 983/ > /Skype: erices148/ > > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev -- Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net AVVERTENZA: i messaggi inviati a "trappola" non mi arriveranno. WARNING: messages sent to "trappola" will never reach me.
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