Hey Kenneth, it would be interesting in which countries are which amount of certificates. We are thinking and talking about possibilty to bringt LPI certification in each country and in each region. But what are the facts? That could be an important point for distribution or the forms of exams.
25 € / hour? That would be cheap here... But if we are talking about worldwide we should look for a solution which is okay for every country. >From my point of view we will find a solution there, that would not be the >point :-) Regards Maik -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Peiruza <[email protected]> To: mwienstroer39194 <[email protected]>; lpi-examdev <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 8:37 pm Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) -- WAS: online speaker opportunity Hi Maik, I would be happy with your test/practical approach, fair enough. LPIc 2 is becoming harder to sell, IMHO due to RH's certification and the test exams. About the hours thing, I get your point. Here LPIc training ranges from 12 to 25 €/ hour, but other certification are also around 100/hour. That idea can't be applied worldwide, true. Regards! Kenneth Sent from my Mi phone On [email protected], Sep 24, 2016 8:12 PM wrote: HeyKenneth, Thank youfor your thoughts on this topic. In somepoints I agree with you. Maybe itwould be a possible approach to do LPIC-1 certificates the same way as now,LPIC-2 could be a little bit more practice und maybe LPIC-3 should be fullypractical. So wehave the possibility to get many students in first levels and maybe a higherreputation for senior level. What are your thoughts on this? Idisagree with your hour thoughts. From my point of view, it should be possibleto teach 301 in 5 days and continue with some work at home to get certified. 60hours are 8,5 days full of teaching. Normally a day teaching in Germany costsround about 500-1000 Euro. So it would be too expensive from my point of view. Why I goto a course from my point of view: I do not only want to learn the stuff frombooks, that I can do at home alone. I want to get some exercise, human networksand hints from practice. That isthe value in a course from my point if view. So LPIC course should be the same. So aremy opinion. Regards Maik -----Original Message----- From: kenneth <[email protected]> To: This is the lpi-examdev mailing list. <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 12:28 pm Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) -- WAS: online speaker opportunity Hi all, I've been teaching LPI certifications for PUE (Spain's partner) for more than 10 years. Here, LPI is very widely accepted, specially in Catalonia (Barcelona's region), where our public educational system includes LPIc-1 and CCNA in intermediate/advanced vocational training for computer sciences. However, RH is still the king. Ater teaching LPIC1 || 2 for more than 50 times and every LPIC3 at least twice, most of my students prefer LPIc contents to those from RH certifications (some former students recently took 2 RH certifications and they were laughting on how superficial were Bind and Postfix topics compared to LPIC-2), but they prefer practical tests. IMHO a practical test is closer to a sysadmin's daily work, but it's impossible to do such a test covering most LPIc topics. I got an A+ SuSE's intermediate certification by only doing SSH, vsftp, NFS and LVM stuff. That's less than 1/5th of LPIC2. Probably the best thing to do would be a shorter test covering all topics + a small practicum test, because as previously stated, you would probably miss things like ldconfig in a practicum, and it's harder to find the solutions for a practicum test on the Internet (Fuck Pass4sure/Testking/etc...!). Besides that, I'd love to see LPIc improving in some other areas: - Provide really detailed objectives for LPIC-3 courses plus official student books. One can tell me that LPIc-3 level isn't for dummies, right, but it just says "OpenVPN" in 303, and you end up finding non-evident error messages as questions in the test. Every training partner has a limited ammount of hours for each course. In those 48-60 LPIC3 hours, it's virtually impossible to prepare someone to pass an unknown test covering more than 10 major solutions when the contents of the course aren't even detailed. You need loads of hours on each topic to know it deeply enough to pass an LPIc3 without cheating. It's not realistic to expect everyone to memorize every different error message an OpenVPN can return to you, plus all directives. You would need at least 12 hours just to do it, when it weights around 2 points out of 60. That would require around 720 hours of study to pass an 303 like a gentleman. Most teachers end up reverse-engineering tests available on the net (myself), so we can know where to put our focus, and what practices we should do to reinforce that knowledge in our trainings. This adds a lot of previous work for teachers and it isn't professional enough. Certifications must reflect your knowledge, but training courses are expected to be affordable and to provide enough guidance to have acceptable chances to pass the test if you study at home for a few weeks, not years. This is the core bussiness of all LPIc's training partners. - Time per objective detailed in course's Index. Every teacher assigns time on its own, making it almost impossible to finish all topics in a course. We usually have just 48-60 hours to teach a LPIC3, and from 60 to 90 for LPIC1 and 2. It would also make sense to require at least N hours on every course to consider it official (so, you can't say you're teaching LPIC2 if you are below 60 hours). - Neater topics on LPIC3. LPIC-300 should be the place to find ALL centralized authentication services (OpenLDAP, Samba and FreeIPA), LPIC-303 100% focused on hardening, cryptography and pentesting (which is the thing most people want to know in a 303). - Provide official exercises for all LPI levels. I really hate those certifications where everything is already done and you just read PPTs, all exercises are official and you must stick to it, but we're just on the opposite side, and it's neither good. I love practical training, but having some suggested exercises is a must. - Finish LPIC-305 draft once and for all, even by dropping IM and focusing it 100% on email services. I asked my latest 60 LPIC2 students about it and they'd like to have it available, and above 2/3 wanted to take it. It's a quite unknown but widely used topic, and there's too many MS-Exchanges in private companies mostly because people doesn't really know how it works, almost nobody uses Exchange in ISPs or public administration here (the largest environments). At PUE, Linux teachers (6) have started to put all our exersises, notes and tests in common, and to prepare VMs and Dockers to improve them and make it possible for our students to build their labs at home and to make it easier for us to backup another teacher for some sessions. This is basically what every major certification gives you: an official exercises's guide plus official training environments, but we were missing this on LPIC and we ended up wasting a lot of time separatedly. I recently took a Cloudera training as student, and believe me, you could skip the training sessions thanks to the provided materials (student book, exercises and VM). Once you have this, creating on-line practical exams is quite straightforward. And yes, I'm offering my help, at least with 305 and some exercises :) PS: docker search kpeiruza | grep lpic Regards! Kenneth A 2016-09-24 09:34, [email protected] escrigué: Hey. That´s a point. From my own perspective (Germany) it is not that easy. The firms sometimes have not the greatest respect for lpi. They see RHCE as a great and good one and often feels, that LPI is only somethin nobody knows. If you talk to them and tell them who LPI is and what covers in exam they starts changing their view. But I think there is a lot of things to do in germany. I would appreciate some PBT like by redhat or cisco. Why? Because some professionals told me that their way felt so wrong in LPI view, but the goal is the same. I think, that is only another approach for an exam and if someone got enough time to use man-pages, just do it :). I talked with LPI german about this topic and the main concerns was the possibility to take certifications worldwide and without much cost. That is a good point for me and a very very important one. But nevertheless,it should be a topic to think about in future. Regards Maik -----Original Message----- From: alexbmw00 <[email protected]> To: Bryan Smith <[email protected]> Cc: This is the lpi-examdev mailing list. <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 2:06 am Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) -- WAS: online speaker opportunity Nice, Everyone knows the LPI and has respect for her, who is trying to debunk the argument for failure to pass the test. Although minister Linux courses and Open Source, make the LPIC-1 and LPIC-2, raised and my knowledge of Linux, especially in the LPIC-2. In Brazil, (im Here), is required LPI Certified by more than 90% of companies for Analsita Linux space. The reputation and prestige of the IPL, I'm going to LPIC-3303, soon to LPIC-3304. ~ On 09/23/2016 08:33 PM, Bryan Smith wrote: > [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> Gentlemen, > Oops, looks like I started the wrong tangent. My sincerest apologies > to the list. My bad here. > >> I fully agree, many people criticize the LPI, by being theoretical test. > Actually, I don't think people criticize it as such. It's actually a > broad, _practical_ set of objectives. That's actually a _positive_ in > my view. There is so much more to cover in the objectives. That's > why I use it to teach everyone, including in RHEL-only shops. > > The only thing I've ever seen people argue is that it's a Computer > Based Test (CBT). But that's not really a knock against LPI, but more > against Microsoft and their 70 series of exams. Microsoft's sole 80 > series, its Performance Based Test (PBT) series, test (which I took, > it used the SuSE Practicum engine) was a chronic failure (the > Practicum engine is fine, the Windows platform just wasn't good for > it). > >> I like Red Hat, but the exams LPI goes beyond a Linux GNU, >> that's right, because Red Hat RHCSA addresses the Red Hat system, >> the LPI addresses Linux in the (Linux kernel), because Linux is the Kernel , >> no use conheceer the Red Hat does not know the background Linux kernel, >> Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE Enterprise are GNU Linux, or be a RHCSA is sysadmin >> GNU Linux >> Red Hat, one LPI is sysadmin Linux ( Linux kernel) and GNU Linux, regardless >> of vendor. > Well, I don't get into all that. I just focus on how much LPI covers, > which is _not_ "optional" in my view. > > Even Cisco has to limit what the 2-day CCIE covers, because PBT > requires time. That's why Cisco has additional, CBT exams as well, > including specialties for the CCIE. > >> The LPI goes far beyond install and configure, you need to know the >> parameter configuration as well as their proper locations and to that >> server. > Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I mean, even in a PBT, you have to > be familiar with where things are, for quick reference, as well as to > avoid looking up anything. If you're looking up things on a PBT, > you're going to run out of time. > > Again, sorry for the tangent, which was caused by my not realizing, > initially, that I was posting to the list. But I think LPI Certified > Level 1 (LPIC-1) sells itself for the all-compassing nature of its > objectives. > > It's why I teach them. > > > -- > Bryan J Smith - http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith > E-mail: b.j.smith at ieee.org or me at bjsmith.me -- Alex Clemente [email protected] [email protected] Analista Linux e Unix Instrutor Linux e Open Source ----------------------------- CompTIA Linux+ SUSE Certified Linux Administrator SUSE Technical Especialist LPIC-1 Linux Server Professional LPIC-2 Linux Network Professional AWS Technical Professional _______________________________________________ lpi-examdev mailing list [email protected] http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev _______________________________________________ lpi-examdev mailing list [email protected] http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev _______________________________________________ lpi-examdev mailing list [email protected] http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev _______________________________________________ lpi-examdev mailing list [email protected] http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev
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