On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 7:30 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Przygienda <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2025 2:24 AM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* [email protected]; lsr <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Review comments for
> draft-prz-lsr-hierarchical-snps-00: Detailed comments
>
>
>
> Inline
>
>
>
> On 17 Jul 2025, at 23:15, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Here are some more detailed comments – many of which are editorial.
>
>
>
> Proceeding in section order through the document.
>
>
>
> *Introduction*
>
>
>
> It seems to me that the mechanisms defined here are potentially applicable
> to PSNPs as well as CSNPs - but you do not discuss this. Is this
> intentional?
>
>
>
> The use of the term "level" in regards to the merkle hash is a bit
> confusing given that we have a protocol which supports multiple levels.
> Perhaps replace "level" with "ordinal"?? (Open to other suggestions)
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah, I agree, a synonym for level would be better. Ordinal is bit stilted
> ;-) [though stilted language is normally my specialty;-).   What about
> “rank” or “grade”, “degree” ?
>
>
>
> *[LES:] “degree” works for me*
>

ok, will adapt


>
>
>
>
> *Section 2 Suggested Dynamic Leaf Partitioning*
>
>
>
> Paragraph 2 has an error:
>
>
>
> *"LSP ID + Fragment + Seq# + CSUM + Lifetime length which amounts to 8 + 2
> + 2 + 2 = 14 bytes each"*
>
>
>
> should be
>
>
>
> *"LSP ID + Fragment + Seq# + CSUM + Lifetime length which amounts to 8 + 2
> + 4 + 2 = 16 bytes each"*
>
>
>
> i.e., the Seq# is 4 bytes in length
>
>
>
>
>
> Ah, perfect catch
>
>
>
> As to previous note, observe that CSUM e.g. is NOT guaranteed either to be
> unique so there is the corner, corner case in the protocol where some node
> reboots, issues same LSP with same sequence# but different content _but_
> checksum ends up matching
>
>
>
> If you consider that “fine” then there is the discussion whether HSNP
>  should just hash the CSUMs ;-)   but I’d think that would start to be a
> bit of a lax approach ;-()
>
> *[LES:] See my response to Tony Li. I think the consequences of duplicate
> checksums are much less severe.*
>

yes, the more stuff covers the riskier for sure. see my other response


>
>
>
>
> *Definition of the hashes*
>
>
>
> You describe an encoding of:
>
>
>
> *Start ID (7 bytes)*
>
> *End ID (7 bytes)*
>
> *Hash (4 bytes)*
>
> *Total 18 bytes*
>
>
>
> This suggests two things:
>
>
>
>    - The ID range is meant to include all LSPs generated by the nodes
>    including pseudo-node LSPs
>    - The range is inclusive
>
>
>
> But the actual encoding shown in Figure 2 puts "00" into the 7th ID byte
> (pseudo-node ID) which seems very odd. It suggests either that you do not
> intend to include pseudo-node LSPs in your compression or that you are
> deviating from existing representation of the range (in existing CSNPs) by
> having the end ID identify only the last node - not the actual last LSPID
> that is included.
>
>
>
> Actaully the intention would be to go to 6 bytes here and include all the
> pseudo nodes in the range of the node given that there is so little info in
> pseudo nodes.
>
>
>
> You think that’s a reasonable idea ?
>
>
>
>
>
> There is indeed virtually no discussion of pseudo-node LSPs in the
> document.
>
>
>
> My intuition suggests that a more accurate representation of the range
> would use only the 6 bytes of systemid and that there is no need to include
> the pseudo-node id as it is being ignored anyway i.e.,
>
>
>
> *+--------------------------------------------+*
>
> *|  Start System ID: 1000.0000.008E.00        |*
>
> *+--------------------------------------------+*
>
> *|  End System ID:   1000.0000.00A0.00        |*
>
> *+--------------------------------------------+*
>
>
>
> actually is meant to indicate all LSPs (including pseudo-node LSPs)
> generated
>
> by the system ids in the range of (1000.0000.008E - 1000.0000.00A0)
> (inclusive) - in which case:
>
>
>
> *+--------------------------------------------+*
>
> *|  Start System ID: 1000.0000.008E           |*
>
> *+--------------------------------------------+*
>
> *|  End System ID:   1000.0000.00A0           |*
>
> *+--------------------------------------------+*
>
>
>
> would make more sense.
>
>
>
> Am I understanding this correctly?
>
>
>
>
>
> Ah, I see, reading on you suggest same thing. Yes, I’m all for it
>
>
>
>
>
> *Packing/Re-packing*
>
>
>
> You state
>
>
>
> *" it is desirable to produce one packet on a miss on the merkle hash of
> first level leaf and hence such leaves will pack initially 80 LSP
> fragments"*
>
>
>
> This seems targeted to an environment where most systems generate
> something less than 80 LSPs / node (including pseudo-node LSPs). This
> probably is a reasonable assumption for many deployments/nodes, but
> certainly does not apply to ABRs (L1/L2 routers) who are leaking a large
> number of prefixes nor does it apply to nodes with a large number of
> neighbors. I am not arguing about the number - nor am I quibbling about the
> calculation of how many hashes can fit in an lsp-mtu sized HSNP. I just
> find that the discussion of packing/repacking (Section 2.1) pays little
> attention to the cases which don't fit within the assumptions.
>
>
>
>
>
> Given that there is an understandable desire to have neighbors choose the
> same ranges of IDs for a given hash ordinal (as this limits the cases in
> which the hash has to be recalculated on receipt of an HSNP) it would seem
> beneficial if the "rules" for packing/repacking were more strict.
> Otherwise, the likelihood that different implementations will realize the
> benefits of consistent packing decreases significantly.
>
>
>
> Do I understand this correctly?
>
>
>
> Yes,. And it bears discussion. I did not go in this draft. to excruciating
> levels of correctness because I assumed we will have father discussions
> like this one
>
>
>
> So I hope you are in Madrid because that needs a beer and a napkin
>
>
>
> *[LES:] Sadly – won’t be in Madrid. But hopefully we can arrange a
> discussion soon.*
>

let's discuss on mike then and after madrid set up a call or something

>
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