Hello all, Just my quick 2 cents worth:
Even if two concepts are mutually exclusive, it doesn't mean that better trade-offs between them can be found. The security / convenience trade-off is a well known example. Just because at a fundamental level, you can't reconcile them both fully, it doesn't mean that you can't find better trade-offs, as we have seen with the improvement (admittedly often from a really low starting-point) of security AND convenience in software. Paul. On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 06:41, Zach Bastick <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > > Just to be clear here, I speak only for my track. Not the whole conference. > > I disagree that "governance" and "liberatory ideas" are necessarily > mutually exclusive, as I disagree that "governance" and "anarchism" are > mutually exclusive. Perhaps this is a difference in terminology between us > - I am using the term ‘governance’ here to signify the spectrum of > relations that includes anarchism. After all, all forms of relation suppose > political forces, and these might emerge naturally or organically, even if > they are not explicitly decided by a collective (as they would be in a > democracy). Indeed, the nature of ‘anarchic’ power relations have been the > postulates of many classical thinkers about the human condition under > ‘states of nature’, from Hobbes and to Locke, yes, but also from Proudhon > to Bakunin. > > I certainly understand the frustration with the work of political science > in tech. However, a lot is left to be said about how innovations in > government “keep building further structures of enslavement”, as Gramps > wrote. What is the nature of this enslavement? How is it operationalized as > a system? Is there any system of governance (including anarchism) that does > not entail enslavement of some form? If so, which? If not, are we left to > choose between the forms of enslavement to which we will be subject? How do > we balance these with the positive externalities of “public choices”, to > use David’s term, (yes, I assure you, there are some)? These are complex > and nuanced issues. They are not only theoretical questions; they are > practical questions, the answers to which determine the modes, experiences, > and outcomes of our everyday existence. > > I would be more hesitant than you are to classify our track as “yet > another boring and wrong conference”. Certainly, it might end up being that > way (this is a feature of conferences more generally). Yet it depends more > on the types of contributions that we attract than my own intentions. > Despite the accusation of being “guilty” – which we all are, to one extent > or another - my throat is parched by the desire for truly inquisitive ideas > about our modes of cohabitation and governance, and what these mean for our > values, freedom, and self-actualization. > > As such, I once again cordially invite all those interested in formulating > a fundamental and critical scientific paper on technology and governance to > submit to our track, under the hope that, as Lee wrote, one might “Think > outside the box and good things can be allowed to happen”. Writing academic > conference papers are not everyone’s idea of fun, but if it is your thing, > have a go at it with me. > > (and thanks for having me on the list) > > Zach > > On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 13:10, Lee Alley <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I think you misunderstand the nature of anarchy that may be being >> posited. The absence of government does not preclude, or necessitate the >> presence of violence or danger. Indeed some of the oldest participatory >> communities in the world (certain Swiss cantons) and some of the newest >> (eg. Somaliland) incorporate decentralised models of participatory shared >> responsibilities and contract-based services - sweep/pave/protect the >> streets and you get paid n-amount of [monetary value], and if they fail, or >> are disintermediated by competitors and/or societal changes, then they are >> replaced or fired*. No one thinks twice about this with their tech; yet >> somehow civic particpation is seen as precious requiring an >> immutable/eternal power structure. >> >> Think outside the box and good things can be allowed to happen. >> >> Greets to all, >> Lee >> >> * Sometimes known as "anarcho-capitalism" >> >> >> On 10/11/2020 06:18, davidicus wrote: >> >> Dear Gramps, >> >> That the American public has reached a stage of (de)evolution to the >> point where some folks see "guns" somehow as "liberatory" and not see that >> their society (and government) has amassed the largest military in history >> aided and abetted by the armaments and security complexes (including said >> gun manufacturers), once again illustrates the contradictions of >> (communicative) capitalism. >> >> "Muskets vs. Military Style Assault Rifles" or "Guns vs. Butter" are >> questions of and about governance, governmentality, public policy and yes, >> too, at times "market failure" (whether on questions of Pandemic, Climate >> Change or Digital Divides). Such are the myriad ways in which public >> choices are also about governance, governmentality and the demos. To >> suggest that anarchy is only about non-governance strikes me as a type of >> magical thinking particularly in a global system of nation-states, firms, >> communities that have elected or appointed governmentalities and modes / >> models of governance. A co-operative, credit union, school board or >> voluntary fire fighters team all have employed modes of governance, just as >> larger geographic entities have. All can potentially be corrupt or >> corrupted, but to somehow imagine that the baby should be thrown out in the >> name of 'anarchy' seems to be a problematic reading from the political >> right or libertarian techies. >> >> Kind Regards, >> ~david >> ------------------------------ >> *David Sadoway * PhD MRM BES(Hons) >> Faculty & Instructor. *Geography & The Environment. * >> Kwantlen Polytechnic University. >> https://www.kpu.ca/arts/geography/faculty/david-sadoway >> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David_Sadoway >> *KPU is located on the * >> *unceded lands & waters of the Kwantlen, Katzie, Musqueum, Tsawwassen, >> Semihamoo, Qayqayt, Sto:Lo and Kwikwetlen Peoples. * >> >> >> On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 at 21:32, grarpamp <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> > http://dgsociety.org/dgo-2021/call-for-proposals/ >>> >>> > liberatory ideas >>> > government (or governance) >>> >>> These are mutually exclusive. >>> >>> > governance >>> > anarchic >>> >>> These are mututally exclusive. >>> >>> > Digital Government Research >>> > innovations in digital politics and government >>> >>> Permanent lifelong intergenerational databases >>> of all lives, transactions, words, thoughts, love, >>> DNA, surveillance, spying, lightswitch digital control >>> of the "misinformation" that is your mind and body, >>> censorship, rampant media bias, forced lockdown and >>> inoculation, license logon and permission required >>> for all daily activities including authenticating to >>> your toilet bowl for the morning piss, checkpointed >>> biometric embedded body tags, papers please travel, >>> encryption bans, firearm bans, 6G reporting in realtime, >>> facial gait voice analysis, web bugs, NSA, GovCorp in >>> everything you do, and much much more you despots >>> have yet to dream up, beyond all above which you've >>> already implemented. >>> >>> > models of governance >>> >>> All such in all symposiums on same on this so called "liberation" >>> list in recent years have all been, disgustingly, about how to keep >>> building further structures of enslavement over other harmless humans >>> who've done nothing to you, through forcing yourself and your will over >>> them, ultimately under threat of death. You are guilty. >>> >>> >>> So for remainder of this month, instead of titillating yourselves >>> over yet another such boring and wrong conference... >>> go search, read, and watch... >>> >>> Voluntaryism, Libertarian, peace love and Anarchism, >>> Taxation is Theft, War is Murder, Austrian Economics / Free Markets, >>> Bitcoin documentaries, Anarcho Capitalism, Non Aggression Principle, >>> Natural Law, etc... and yes, even... >>> > crypto-anarchism >>> >>> Anything but yet more forcing yourself over others via non >>> "liberatory ideas" scam of "democracy" and digital govern[ment|nance]. >>> >>> Then come back and talk about what actions of ungovernance >>> need done towards reaching living in an actual state of liberation. >>> >>> Because what's being talked 100:1 on this list has >>> absolutely not been actual liberation, nor even tech, >>> but more politically entrenched systems of GovCorp >>> power and control. >>> >>> That's very bad. >>> For you. >>> And your children. >>> And you know it. >>> >>> -- >>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major >>> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you >>> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, >>> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing >>> [email protected]. >> >> >> -- >> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major >> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you >> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, >> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing >> [email protected]. > > -- > Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major > commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you > moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, > change to digest mode, or change password by emailing > [email protected].
-- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, change to digest mode, or change password by emailing [email protected].
