Anselm,

Thank you for you analysis. 

> bridge...router

I mispoke. Yes, the LTSP server functions as a router
where we have different subnets.

I do favor turning off NAT if possible in order to
reduce the boundary processes where we might "lose"
bits of our traffic and become confused about what's
happening. While the firewall/content-filter will
presently affect only two labs, there is a good chance
it will be moved to behind the the external gateway
router in a year; at that time it will affect more
VIP's so I hope to determine methods and test things
now.

> apps running on LTSP server including Mozilla...

It sounds almost as though the LTSP server does NOT do
NAT, but rather directly creates packets w/its own IP
address and assigns various high ports to the sessions
as needed. ?? In which case there is nothing needing
change this time. Good. <G>  

I guess the answer to my hypothetical question about
addressing client sessions from outside the LTSP
"subnet" (in a different response message) would be
"no, can't do it, not ever". The IP address which the
client machine gets at boot time is used _only_ for
the GUI traffic, correct? 

Rufus


--- Anselm Martin Hoffmeister
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, den 24.05.2006, 19:57 -0700 schrieb
> rufus laggren:
> > I have too many NAT conversersion happening behind
> the
> > external router; at the moment the LTSP server is
> > planned to live behind a NAT'g router and a NAT'g
> > firewall. I want to stop the firewall NAT and the
> LTSP
> > NAT and allow the external router to provide NAT
> for
> > all the different subnets. The LTSP server would
> in
> > affect provide a bridge for it's clients I guess.
> The
> > subnets won't overlap, the LTSP can still provide
> > DHCP.
> 
> In most cases, the LTSP will be a router, not a
> bridge.
> To get that concept clear:
> 
> If two ethernet networks that are not directly
> connected but through a
> computer do have the same IP subnet setting, and all
> computers can talk
> to each other as if they were on the same cable,
> then you have a bridge.
> 
> If two computers have different subnet addresses,
> you have to setup a
> route:
> 
> PC A (10.0.0.11)
>     VA
> Router (10.0.0.1 / 192.168.0.1)
>     VA
> PC B (192.168.0.11)
> 
> Then, you would tell PC A that all addresses
> 192.168.0.0/24 live behind
> the router "10.0.0.1". In the moment PC A wants to
> send an IP packet to
> PC B, the ethernet frame is not sent to the PC B,
> but to the router.
> This router reads in the packet that it needs to
> forward to PC B, which
> then happens.
> 
> This routing can be enabled/disabled with a single
> switch
> in /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward  -  that should
> contain "1", else the
> kernel will not do the packet forwarding.
> 
> Now let us see what happens if "Router" also does
> NAT. Imagine PC A to
> be the "inside" of the NATted network and PC B be
> outside. If you enable
> nat'ting, the packet from A to B will be modified
> while running through
> the router (in the case above, routing, only the
> ethernet framework
> would be changed, but the IP packet should be,
> checksum/TTL apart, stay
> unchanged). The router will modify the "source
> address" to be the
> router's IP address, so that PC B will not need a
> route telling it where
> PC A lives, but it just needs to know the router.
> 
> In case you have a multi-layer-setup, you can either
> do multiple
> nat'ting (as you seem to do right now), or you
> should tell every router
> about every IP subnet in your network, and then turn
> off nat'ting except
> on the "outermost" (directly attached to the
> DSL-Modem, or whatever)
> device. Especially that device will need to know
> router to all IP
> subnets, else those devices could reach the router
> but not vice-versa,
> meaning the internet access would be broken.
> 
> As for LTSP setups, the thin clients if living on a
> separate IP subnet
> do not need internet access, being able to reach the
> LTSP server is
> absolutely sufficient (provided you do not do local
> apps). All programs,
> including mozilla, run on the LTSP server and start
> their connections
> from there, so if a user logged on to that LTSP
> server on the local
> screen can in theory surf the web, so will the
> terminal users.
> 
> In your case, I would turn LTSP NAT off, as it is
> not needed (except for
> local_apps). I would also turn firewall NAT off.
> Then your external
> router and the firewall will need to have routes to
> all subnets.
> >From the client side, setting a default route to
> the firewall machine
> (as it most probably is setup currently) should
> further be sufficient.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Anselm
> 
> > In this I am assuming that the applications a
> client
> > is running (from the server) actually issue their
> > network requests from the client - ie, the client
> is
> > running it's own network connection exactly as if
> it
> > were a fat PC, even though it is using files and
> > possibly the display system from the server.
> Another
> > way to say this - application traffic goes through
> the
> > clients NIC in exactly the same form as if it were
> a
> > fat PC, so even though the server is providing
> some
> > processing and storage, the client machine appears
> as
> > a "real" host on the net behind the LTSP server if
> you
> > watched it with a sniffer on the client subnet
> (except
> > for the extra ports for display and such). The
> LTSP
> > server normally acts as a NAT router for its
> clients -
> > this function appears to me to be completely
> > independent of its server functions.
> > 
> > If my theory is right, how do I implement it? 
> Config
> > files? Or is there a setup screen. I did not set
> up
> > the LTSP system and in fact know nothing about it
> > except the barest concepts. I am trying to get a
> > handle on what is possible here. I have just
> finished
> > building a simple firewall/content-filter and need
> to
> > decide the best way to place the LTSP clients
> behind
> > it. Others familiar with the LTSP server will do
> the
> > work, but I need some idea what I can ask for.
> > 
> > Thanks, Rufus
> 
> 
>
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