Hi Robert and al. fat diskless setup have been around for already quite a while (see for example the Solstice projet of the former Solunix startup http://www.solunix.fr/solstice/principe.html warning : page in French). This is indeed a great solution for multimedia apps compared to --current-- state of the art LTSP. However, most of the limitation you are mentioning are just minor technical issues. All of them can be addressed with extension to current technologies, like network-optimized pulseaudio, virtualGL, ltsp aware gstreamer framework etc.
To my mind LTSP is here to stay for a long time. LTSP is not only a way of cutting IT cost, it is also a part of a revolution of the computing paradigm. Up to now people where using PCs, --Personal Computer--. Personnaly I have not used a PC for quite a long time. I just use my Personal Session (no place's better than $HOME :-). Whether I'm at work or on the road, I'll be using LTSP or NX client to connect to my work session. When I'm off duty, I'll be using LTSP or NX client to connect to my home server. My personal environment follows me where I am. Fat diskless client makes this impossible. There are just a nowadays solution for a nowadays problem. They are not the solution for the future. So I wouldn't say "LTSP future: local apps", I'd say "heavy multimedia LTSP now: local apps". Cheers, Denis > I just got back from visiting Kamloops school district here in Canada. > > http://www.sd73.bc.ca/district-operations.php/page/linux-in-education/ > > Their goal is to switch their entire district to Linux diskless > clients and they are doing it. However, they are not using 100% LTSP. > They use bits of ltsp to pxe boot their clients and mount / over nfs > and they use NIS or LDAP for auth but they DO NOT use XDMCP or ssh to > shoot the display over the network. Everything runs locally. Every new > client is an AMD Sempron cpu with 512MB (easily powerful enough to run > everything locally). The clients are almost the same price as many > thin clients. About $250 CAD. They are actually using a modified > Muekow ltsp implementation built in house inside a virtual private > server > http://linux-vserver.org/Welcome_to_Linux-VServer.org > Kind of like a super chroot environ that requires a patched kernel. > (Not a virtual machine like Xen or VMware) > > The clients are still diskless. But since everything runs locally > there is no traditional problems associated with ltsp. Like having an > entire classroom (30 clients) watch a full screen youtube video > (flash). Or fullscreen quicktime/mpeg4 video (remember you are > streaming [over nfs] the highly compressed video file in exchange for > cpu power required to decompress it). Or have a Beryl 3D enabled > student desktops. Or 30 kids playing GNU/Chess. Good luck doing these > things with traditional thin client ltsp. I don't care if you have a > dual Opteron, it's still going to fall to it's knees. The nfs server > at Barriere Secondary serves the entire school: approx. 115 clients. > Local devices like USB sticks: no problem, each client is running a > full blown OS. No need for ltspfs. All clients run Xvnc so support for > the district techs is a snap since they can fix things remotely. > > LTSP 5 has this ability as it uses the distro packages instead of it's > own and is much easier to implement local apps. In my mind, this is > the future of ltsp. Kamloops is just ahead of the curve because they > realized that if their initiative was to be successful they didn't > want any of the limitations of ltsp while still having the advantages. > Clients are diskless centrally managed appliances. Plug it in and it > works, advantages that ltsp has always had. > > Some may say apps take longer to load over nfs. This may be true but > if you configure your network properly you can address this. Gigabit > switch backbone. Port trunking. Another solution I like, use multiple > gigabit nics in your nfs server on different subnets connected to > separate switches as described here. > http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/Technical:Subnetting > Thereby, creating dedicated bandwidth for different parts of a school > and preventing bottlenecks. > > In any case, once an app is loaded it's fast and if you happen to > shutdown the app (say Firefox) and start it again the machine does not > take nearly as long to launch it again because apps are cached locally > in the memory of the client machine (remember the 512MB). > > The only down side is power consumption as compared to real thin > clients. However, having said this I know that most people running > ltsp are using old hardware as thin clients which are not energy > efficient. However, I believe the advantages outweigh this issue > especially when you have to compare them to stand alone Windows labs. > Having said this, those AMD Semprons are actaully a pretty efficient > cpu. > > Part of the reason local apps have not gained as much momentum in ltsp > circles is that the raison d'etre of ltsp was that you didn't have to > purchase new clients. Simply re-deploy existing old boxes (As I and > many others have done) as thin clients. So after a few years and ltsp > was seen as a viable solution people kept the "Run it on the server" > ideology. Even though the price difference between new real thin > clients and relatively powerful diskless clients has almost > disappeared. > > My last point, the nfs servers in Kamloops are actually hybrid > servers. They actaully have scripts to determine how powerful a client > is at boot time then decide how many apps (all or some) will run > locally. So the nfs server is also a traditional ltsp server. This, I > believe, is a stop gap measure until all their clients are replaced > with new ones. > > Here is the specs of the desktop systems they are using: > Not sure who their supplier is but I checked the prices on the parts > they are using on newegg > > Case ($40 USD ) > Apex Supercase DM317 > http://www.apextechusa.com/products.asp?pID=4 > > Motherboard ($63 USD ) > BioStar AM2 6100 Mainboard > http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/board.php?name=GeForce%206100%20AM2 > > Processor (Actually the Sempron 3000+ is now $41 USD) > AM2 Sempron 2800 > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_11599_11604,00.html > > RAM ( $35 USD ) > 512mb KINGSTON DDR-2 667 memory > http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/PartsInfo.asp?root=&LinkBack=&ktcpartno=KVR667D2N5/512 > > ***For a grand total of $179 USD*** > > A couple of points: > > -The TX series cases, have some mini towers, although a little bigger > than the DM series they are probably quieter because of the bigger > PSU fan > > -There is a similar motherboard made by a division of asus called > Asrock with some additional features as compared to the Biostar. > Although Kamloops is not using this one since it's just released: > http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=ALiveNF6G-DVI > > -parallel printer port > -gigabit nic > -dual independent video output with a DVI card > > It's selling for $69 USD (there are some reviews on newegg) and here > is a linux compatibility review of it from last Dec. > > http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/showproduct.php/product/3686 > > Although nvidia has come out with newer binary drivers since then so > *maybe* the pci id is no longer an issue. It's only $6 more than the > Biostar and you can run 2 displays (as long as one monitor supports > DVI) plus a gigabit nic. Well worth it in my opinion. > > -- Denis Cardon Tranquil IT Systems 10 rue du Docteur Bouchard 49400 Saumur http://www.tranquil-it-systems.fr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _____________________________________________________________________ Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
