Eric Hattemer wrote: > > I've been busy lately, and never had the chance to reply to this message, > but here we go: > > From: "Jimen Ching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Eric Hattemer wrote: > > I suppose I missed the logic in the first part of your message, so I'm > cutting it. > > > >Only about 1:5 times when I try to compile something in linux does it > > >come out correctly. > > > > Let me get this straight, you are comparing the installation of windows > > programs to the compilation of linux programs? And for some reason, you > > feel they should have the same difficulty level? Or the same easiness > > level... > > Perhaps this is slightly unfair. I've never compiled anything in windows > that I didn't write myself. However, this is because I didn't need to. > That's just how I get a lot of programs in linux. Only taking redhat rpms > is like refusing to run any program not written by microsoft. I have seen > other organizations make redhat rpms for their programs, but often its for > an older version of redhat. Even if they are the right version, they often > require odd dependencies, as mentioned in my last email on this subject. > > > > > >get things installed on. Windows doesn't require that the user remember > > >anything. Do you really think most of the world moved away from the > command > > >line by pure chance? No, it allows you to manipulate files and etc. > without > > >learning or remembering any commands. > > > > More evidence of brain washing? You're telling me that you didn't have to > > remember anything to use or install Windows applications? So you were > > born with the knowledge of the 20 to 40 odd menu options in MS-Word? Or > > the 5 to 10 dialogs for installing the new Inbox Express? I guess > > Microsoft must have found the technology to beam this information directly > > to your mother's brain, and she passed it to you via the umbilical cord. > > The Ctrl-C to copy and the Ctrl-V to paste is learned through osmosis, > > right? > > As for installing, I put the CD in, it says, "would you like to install > this," then I say yes, yes, next, next, finish. If I forgot how to do this > each time, it would be no trouble to figure it out again. I didn't mention > use of MS-Word. However, if I had, I would have had a clear case. Just by > looking through the file menus for word, you can mostly tell what they do. > Now there are some obscure ones, but I simply don't need to use those ones. > However, if I ever found the need, the words in the file menus match up well > with the intended functions. So its quite possible to find out new > functions intuitively. Compare that to something like vi, which may be > faster or more powerful, etc, but really takes a lot of work to learn. Oh, > and about the ctrl-C, ctrl-V, I suppose its not pertinent information that > those are written on my keyboard, but I could find those in the file menus, > and conveniently enough, they have the keyboard shortcuts written in. This > is another example of learning the slow but easy way first, then eventually > moving to the harder yet faster method. > > > I am the type that says: "I wish the people, who wants to use Linux, to > > learn the tools the right way, rather than expect it to function like > > Windows. Even if that means learning vi." > > Would it be acceptable for us to use emacs? Its laid out in a much more > intuitive way. Even pico is easier to use than vi. > > > > > As for pushing the responsibility towards the user, that is exactly what > > Microsoft does. The only difference with Linux is that it is not > > Microsoft. And that just ticks you off because we are asking you to > > relearn what took you years to learn already. Why should you have to > > relearn anything at all to use Linux? Linux should just do it the > > Microsoft way. Because that is THE RIGHT WAY, THE ONLY WAY! > > > > Take a look at KDE and GNOME as evidence. Those developers believe as you > > do. Why re-invent the wheel, when Microsoft did it right the first time? > > Microsoft has brained washed the entire planet to the point where people > > defend it without knowing why. It is sad, but it is also reality. > > > > If the command line were definitively better, why would anyone have left > DOS? Windows sold well because it was easier to use than DOS ever was. To > get people to use win3.1 didn't take "brainwashing", it just took them > seeing how easy it was to use. Now I haven't used gnome in a while, but KDE > has many customizations and themes that allow you to make it look very > different from windows if you want. > > Now I'm not saying the command line should be eliminated or anything silly > like that. I use the windows command propmt for things like ping, ipconfig, > nslookup, etc. I use the linux command prompt on a regular basis. But I > think that the command prompt should just be for more obscure functions, or > for advanced users who find it faster to use; not for beginning users doing > basic operations. > > -Eric Hattemer > > > --jc > > > > P.S. Do not for a moment believe that Microsoft is unique. Give Red Hat > > a chance, and they will do the same. I don't believe there is anyone who > > is reading this email believes that AOL, Oracle, Sun, Viacom, or any other > > conglomerate wouldn't want what Microsoft has. Don't believe for a second > > that these companies don't want to use the same tactics to achieve the > > same goals. We hate Microsoft because it affects us the most. In the > > 70's and 80's, our older colleages before us hated IBM and AT&T for the > > same exact reasons. The young believe they invented the rebellion. But > > the only new thing is the technology. > > > > -- > > Jimen Ching (WH6BRR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ##############
Eric, Learn it all. Give you something to do, brah! Then we call you when we need help. :) Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043