On 2013-11-23 08:47, Elfy wrote: > On 23/11/13 06:43, Nio Wiklund wrote: >> It happened again :-( >> >> See this link >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1769482&page=79&p=12855281#post12855281 >> >> >> and oldfred's reply in the following post. >> ----- >> "I have never trusted any of the auto install options. Generally they >> seem to work, but often then when things start to go wrong, they just >> snowball. >> >> I find that Something else or manual install has always worked, but then >> you have to know more than most new users. You have to manually >> partition, choose partitions format like ext4 and mount like / (root). >> Only users that have previously installed or know about partitions could >> do that. >> >> I also find it safer to have Windows on one drive and Linux on other >> drives, but many users today have laptops, so they do not have that >> option unless they use an external drive. " >> ----- >> I think this another way of describing the problem. There are not enough >> warnings in the desktop and alternate installers. And it should be easy >> to fix it. >> >> Best regards >> Nio >> >> On 2013-10-24 23:42, Dale Visser wrote: >>> I noticed a similar lack of warning in my upgrade install. I was on a VM >>> with snapshot backup in place, but still... I noticed that of you don't >>> read *everything* *carefully* before clicking, you could quickly pave >>> something important. >>> >>> As an aside, I couldn't figure if it was possible for me to pave my '/' >>> partition, but leave my '/usr/local' and '/home' partitions alone. >>> >>> Sent from my Windows Phone >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> From: Andre Rodovalho <mailto:andre.rodova...@gmail.com> >>> Sent: 10/24/2013 5:05 PM >>> To: Iberê Fernandes <mailto:ibere.fernan...@gmail.com> >>> Cc: ubuntu...@lists.ubuntu.com <mailto:ubuntu...@lists.ubuntu.com>; JM >>> <mailto:me...@gmx.fr>; lubuntu...@lists.launchpad.net >>> <mailto:lubuntu...@lists.launchpad.net>; Lubuntu Comms >>> <mailto:lubuntu-co...@lists.launchpad.net>; lubuntu user list >>> <mailto:Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com> >>> Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-qa] People do not understand the desktop installer >>> >>> I checked Ubiquity, when you choose dual boot option, next window on >>> wizard show the "graph", lubuntu and Windows alongside... But if the >>> replace option is selected, there is nothing but the Install now >>> button... Once you hit that, it's all gone! >>> >>> >>> 2013/10/24 Iberê Fernandes <ibere.fernan...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:ibere.fernan...@gmail.com>> >>> >>> 2013/10/24 Nio Wiklund <nio.wikl...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:nio.wikl...@gmail.com>> >>> >>> On 2013-10-24 17:36, JM wrote: >>> > On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:26:19 +0200 >>> > Nio Wiklund <nio.wikl...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:nio.wikl...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi everybody, >>> >> >>> >> Today, there is another person, who misunderstood the >>> partitioning >>> >> dialogue of the desktop installer. >>> >> >>> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2183287 >>> >> >>> >> 'When I went to install 13.10 I chose the option to remove >>> windows and >>> >> replace with Ubuntu. I had two partitions when I chose this. >>> One with >>> >> files I wanted to keep and the other being the windows 7 >>> partition. When >>> >> I chose to remove windows I assumed it would be placed on my >>> C drive and >>> >> not my other one. But what actually ended up happening >>> was all my >>> >> partitions merged into one deleting everything. Now I only >>> have Ubuntu >>> >> on my drive. I need help retrieving my files please!' >>> >> >>> >> -o- >>> >> >>> >> This is what I have been telling, when describing the One >>> Button Installer >>> >> >>> >> '... >>> >> Case 1: Tool that is easy to use and just works >>> >> >>> >> The normal linux installers that come with iso files are >>> complicated to >>> >> use or freeze during the installation process, and you >>> want a >>> tool that >>> >> is easier to use and just works. >>> >> ... >>> >> a. The Desktop Installer is flexible and looks nice, and is >>> generally >>> >> easy to understand, but the partitioning page can make >>> people >>> confused. >>> >> There are several threads at the Ubuntu Forums describing >>> installations, >>> >> where a previous system has been overwritten by mistake. >>> ...' >>> >> >>> >> It is really too bad, and something that should be improved >>> in 14.04 >>> >> >>> >> Best regards >>> >> Nio >>> > >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > A window with a warning in big and red could be added before >>> the person can access to the >>> > "apply" button. Something such as: >>> > >>> > WARNING YOU MIGHT DESTROY YOUR DATA : HAVE YOU DONE A BACKUP >>> OF YOUR PERSONAL DATA BEFORE >>> > PROCEEDING? >>> > >>> > ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO PROCEED? >>> > >>> > Followed by a "Yes" and a "Quit" button. (Perhaps not all in >>> high case... I don't use >>> > html in mails). >>> > >>> > And the installer has a partitionning tool which IS really >>> confusing. I would suggest to >>> > request that it be removed and calling Gparted which is much >>> easier to understand, >>> > imo, or it should be graphically improved and made perfect >>> before being provided to >>> > everybody. >>> > >>> > I anwered to the person at the forum and provided links to >>> testdisk and tutorials. >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > Mélodie >>> > >>> Thanks Mélodie for providing help to the poor fellow who >>> misunderstood >>> the installer! >>> >>> I was so absorbed by reporting the problem, that I forgot to >>> help ... I >>> will follow the case, and if testdisk does not work, and nobody >>> else is >>> faster than I, [I will] suggest PhotoRec. >>> >>> -o- >>> >>> Yes a warning screen is a good thing. Also a description of >>> what >>> will be >>> wiped or overwritten (for each particular case). I agree that >>> gparted is >>> easier to understand, and available in the desktop iso file. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Nio >>> >>> -- >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-qa >>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-qa> >>> Post to : lubuntu...@lists.launchpad.net >>> <mailto:lubuntu...@lists.launchpad.net> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-qa >>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-qa> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From the Facebook posts to our list: >>> >>> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html >>> >>> >>> Interesting user experience. >>> >>> Thank you Ali! >>> >>> -- >>> Lubuntu-users mailing list >>> Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com >>> <mailto:Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com> >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > I'm not sure that this is as big a problem as it is made out to be. > > If we assume that 100,000 thousand people have installed and 1 person > failed to read or take notice or understand - do we really have to do > anything? > > I read the thread the last time it appeared on the quality list, but > haven't gone back to read it this time - vaguely remembering some > calling for video's to show/be available - bad idea in my opinion. > > Perhaps ubiquity could be reworded. The way to deal with that is with a > bug - it might get worked on, it might get marked opinion, it might get > marked wishlist - but talking about the same thing over and over in a > few mailing lists isn't the way forward. > > As far as I can see this could happen > > We do nothing - the few people that fail to take any notice of warnings > continue to do the same and continue to cause themselves problems. > > There's a video - the few people that fail to take any notice continue > to do so - the video becomes a series and STILL the people that fail to > take any notice continue to do so ... > > We reword things - the few people that fail to any notice continue to do > so - the rewording becomes a book - the few people that fail to any > notice continue to do so. > > At some point we have to recognise that not everyone should be let loose > with an installer - and it isn't our job to cater for them. > > Elfy > > ps - not sure who started the ball rolling - but I'm not sure that > Ubuntu Qatar really want to be CC'd in - so can they stop including > ubuntu...@lists.ubuntu.com unless they're sure they want the messages ;) > Hi Elfy,
1. I'm responsible for starting the ball rolling - and I'm sorry about Ubuntu Qatar - I mistook it for Ubuntu Quality Assurance - in analogy to lubuntu-qa, and was confused by Ubuntu Quality, so I added both to be sure. 2. So you agree with Ali, that those failing with the desktop and alternate installers are only a few hopeless cases. You might be right, but there might also be several people who fail and never let us know about it. They just abandon linux and go back to Windows. I have to admit that I misunderstand the wording in one of the auto install options. ----- When the user intends to overwrite *Ubuntu in a dual boot system, the result can be to overwrite Windows or the whole drive. ----- There is something in the English wording that I misunderstand, so I feel that the wording should really be improved. There should also be a red or black warning, that the drive will be overwritten, added to that rewording. I think this is the problem oldfred points to, when he states that he never trusted any of the auto install options. Fortunately I am aware of risks, so I backup my data before editing partitions. But tough guys never backup their data, they do the work twice instead. To help or not to help [them], that is the question ;-) I will be prepared to file a bug report, but not until there is enough support for the issue. I don't want to get it marked as a 'wishlist' bug. Best regards Nio -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
