Thank you for the great advice on the peg heads, gentlemen! As to the second part of my question, why wax rather than, say, shellac: do I understand correctly as Jon alluded to that wax wears superior for a much handled surface like the peg head?
Paul -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Jon Murphy Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 9:42 AM To: David Van Edwards Cc: lute-builder@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Peg head finishing Good answer David, but I'm not sure if our definition of soft is the same. I've still got most of a 1 lb. block of beeswax on my shelf and that stuff is hard to carve off the chips that I melt and mix for my pastes. My buffing wheel doesn't melt it off easily either, although it does easily melt the commercial block of beeswax that came with it. No quarrel, and I confess I'm no longer involved in the real lute "business". I no longer have an instrument with pure pegs, I shifted the pegs on my bastard lute from Music Makers (flat back) to mechanicals as Jerry made a mistake in his kit design. His pegs were set in an open head so there was only the one contact with the wood. The pull made it impossible to tune closely as there was no incremental turn. I put on the mechanicals to make it work, and sound classical. I mention this just for drill, and for those who may have lutes with short cuts in the making. If you are going to use a wooden peg it must have two holes to support it with the string in the middle. Look at a violin, the peg goes through one side of the head and into the other. When you have many string courses you can't do that, the head has to have a middle channel to give the pegs two points of support with the string in the middle. Enough, I'm in agreement with you David - just wanted to raise the issue of the difference between what you can get in the can and the real stuff. I've been on my Celtic harp for music mainly for many years now, but pick up the lute now and then. A left side stroke some years back reduced my ability to play my necked instruments (guitar, lute, mountain dulcimer) as my muscle memory for the fingering is gone. I was lucky, no loss of motor skills - so I can play them - but the loss of the feedback/muscle memory means that I have to concentrate on that left hand. On the harp I can just simplify my "bass" to counter notes to the right hand melody. As I don't normally participate in this lute-builder list these days (but want to stay on it), let me make a few more comments on waxes and finishes. My main avocation these days is my wood turning. Paul mentioned shellac, that is very different than a wax - as are almost all other "finishes". Shellac is hard, but also easy to rub off. It doesn't penetrate the wood. I make my own, and where I want penetration I combine it in a mixture with mineral oil. My beeswax compounds are a hard paste and a soft one - the hard is a 4 lb. mix with mineral oil, the soft a 2lb. mix. The term comes from the mixing of shellac. Furniture makers use a mix from 1 lb to 6 lbs. of shellac to solvent (denatured alcohol). I basically use a 2 lb. mix, and mix some or that 25/75 with mineral oil depending on the use. Wow, ain't that confusing - and it was intended to be. There is no such thing as shellac, or beeswax, or carnauba, or whatever, as a single thing. My shellac, made from flakes as an opened shellac lasts about six months so I make what I need for that long - is a 2 lb mix. My beeswaxes are 2 and 4. OK, what does that mean? The standard terminology is pounds per gallon, the weight of the flakes (or shavings if you are cutting from a block) versus the liquid measure of the solvent. At my level that translates to 2 ozs. of stuff to one cup (8 fluid ozs) of solvent for my 2 lb mix. I like my 4 lb beeswax mix for the turnings I can finish on the lathe so I can burn them in - but when I have to finish the piece off the lathe then burnish it on the buffing wheel the lighter mix works better. Believe nothing i have just said, except for the fact that there are many ways to make a finish - and that with a few supplies you can try them all without spending a lot of money. A small sensitive scale to weigh your flakes, a cup measure stolen from the kitchen because your wife keeps buying new ones and won't miss it. A small pot to heat the mixture in simmering water (that small pot that she doesn't like anymore, the stained one). A quart of denatured alcohol as a solvent (big one at Home Depot a couple of bucks) and a quart of mineral oil (same place and price). If you want some coloring in the oil you might want Danish oil or Tung oil - but not the expensive mixes as they will confuse your mixture. Find it pure on line, it will last a long time. You will need containers, you have them - wash out the various sauce bottles you would put in the recycle trash. (Personally I buy "Masons" of different sizes cheaply at Michael's Crafts, just because I like them). Make small amounts and try them out. Never make a lot, even if you like it. It goes to waste as there is a shelf life on many of the mixtures. Pardon my ramble, the thread got me off on a tangent and I couldn't help offering general comments. I wish I could still be involved with the lute and its development, but time and other things have taken that from me. NO problem, I love my harp and can make music there without the full use of the left hand - and can still do a reasonable job on my lute. Best, Jon On 10/27/2014 7:33 AM, David Van Edwards wrote: > I buy pure carnauba wax in lumps at my local hardware shop and don't > mix it with anything. If you can only find flakes, melt them into a > lump which you can apply to the buffing wheel. As Jon says most of the > commercial waxes are mixtures. Try a lump of pure beeswax and you'll > see how soft it is. > > Head only, you don't want wax of any sort on the shanks, just > peg-paste if you use it. > > David > > At 05:15 -0400 27/10/14, Jon Murphy wrote: >> Disagree, beeswax is not too soft - it all depends on how you make >> it. Carnauba is the harder generically, but all commercially sold >> waxes are mixtures. I make my own beeswax from flakes, several >> mixtures with oils of different concentrations, for my wood turnings. >> One of my beeswax mixtures is harder, effectively, than the >> commercial carnauba I have. Admittedly, if I could find a reasonable >> supplier for carnauba flakes I could make that in varying grades. >> >> OK, now to agree with David. The carnauba is harder - but the actual >> end result is dependent on the mixture of wax flakes and solvent that >> makes the actual wax in the pot. Buy it off the shelf and you may not >> be getting what you think you are getting. BTW, after saying the >> above I Googled and I think I can get some carnauba flakes reasonably >> - will have to try them for my finishes. >> >> Best, Jon >> >> >> On 10/26/2014 7:06 PM, David Van Edwards wrote: >>> Carnauba wax. It's the hardest vegetable wax and melts well above >>> blood heat so doesn't fingermark. Apply with buffing wheel and NO >>> beeswax, which is much too soft. >>> >>> David >>> >>> At 16:25 -0400 26/10/14, Paul Daverman wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I am wondering what most builders use for finish on the heads of the >>>> friction pegs. I believe Lundberg recommended simply applying with >>>> beeswax and buffing. I am curious if this is what others are doing and >>>> also why beeswax in this case as opposed to, say, shellac or the such. >>>> >>>> Thanks for you input. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
