Dear Herbert and James, and all, I won't claim to be a "smart guy", but I do know something of strings (from the harp, guitar and psaltery - and now from modifying the stringing and tensions of the Musikits flat back lute I've made).
With your indulgence let me speak of the basics. Contrary to intuition all strings break at about the same pitch, given the length (excepting bronze wire, and of course excepting wound strings). The pitch is a function of mass (guage), and vibrating length. The breaking point is a function of tension and tensile strength. It happens (not by design but pure coincidence) that the combination of mass and tensile strength of gut, nylon and steel wire (used on renaissance harps and psalteries) comes out to a factor that is almost the same, I won't give you the numbers but I think I put them in a previous message to the list. (But when speaking of wound strings the tensile strength is a matter of the guage of the underlying monofiliment, so there is a greater mass than the "pure" string). James, I don't think you will find a tension that will break the lute, the string would break first (or the tension would be so great as to be unplayable). It isn't the light construction of the lute that dictates thinner strings, it is the desired tension. At the moment I'm using La Bella strings supplied to me (as some of you have discussed with me). The g' chanterelle is a rectified .022 (.56mm), and rectification scrapes the hard cover from the nylon and weakens it. The best pitch it will hold is e', and even there the action is too heavy for a lute. The guitar spec for the e' is that same .022 (.56mm), and the standard guitar is a bit longer in vibrating length that the nominal lute ( I believe that the lute ranges from about 58cm to 64cm, mine is 63.3cm - and the guitar is normally closer to 65cm). On the advice of members of this list I've appealed to Curtis Daily of Aquila USA for advice and strings. I anxiously await the strings that are in the mail. His recommendation for my chanterelle was a nylon (not nylgut) .44mm (he is sending .42 as a temp as he is out of stock). The rest will be nylgut or copper wound nylgut. And the nominal tension of all will be about 30 N (3 kilos), but even so the chanterelle will be about 40N (4 kilos) - (but I'm interested in seeing how the temp .42 works out, it may be preferable). OK, have I bored you enough? The answer to Herbert's question is "both". Guitar strings, unless specialized, aren't available in the gauges needed for the treble of the lute. And lute strings need to feel a bit more "limp" than guitar strings (although that isn't a "limpness" in the string, it is the tension required to come to pitch - one wants a softer action on the lute). And I do thank James here for putting tension into kilos of pressure for the differing instruments. Curtis told me the strings he was sending were set for my lute length at about 30N, and that 10N was about one kilo - but I had now translation of the subjective pressure until James said that a standard guitar is about 5 kilos (50N), so now I have the idea of the feel I should have on my lute at about 3 kilos. To summarize. Strings are limited in pitch when using an instrument of fixed length, that is why your Theorbos have the extended arm (finally figured out what a Theorbo is). You lutenists will never tune a string to the g'' that is the top end of my harp, that string is only 6 inches long (Ooops, should say "we" lutenists). Guitar strings might work for the mid ranges on the lute just as well as the nylon lute strings, just use a different guage for the pitch so as to get the softer action the lute desires. But I look forward to the Aquila nylgut, even on the wound strings. The extra mass of the underlying monofiliment should take some of the "boom and rattle" from the bass strings I'm using as I think La Bella just made guitar strings in different guages for their "lute" strings. I'll let you know what happens when I set the nylgut. Best, Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A Stimson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Guitar strings on a lute. > > > > > Dear Herbert: > "Proper diameters" and "more limp" are two sides of the same coin. Guitars > are strung at about 5 kilos of string tension, lutes closer to 3 kilos. > Also, tenor lutes are tuned in G, guitars in E, although their string > lengths are similar. The result is that lute strings must be much thinner. > Good lutes are very lightly constructed, with tops about half the > thickness of guitars, and so cannot tolerate the tension of the average > guitar. > This seems utterly obvious. Am I missing something here? Maybe some of the > smart guys on the list can help us out here. > Yours, > Jim > > > > > Herbert Ward > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > exas.edu> cc: > Subject: Guitar strings on a lute. > 11/26/2003 03:44 > PM > > > > > > > > Why can't one use guitar strings on a lute? Is it merely that they are > not available in the proper diameters? Or do lutes need strings which > are, say, more limp? > > > > > > > > >
