Dear Martin,

I agree.  You are most correct, in that the sources never mention roped 
gut.  I can imagine that roping gut is a modern invention, rather than a 
historical fact.  I have found the same results with roping, that it gives 
a rather dull sound.  The lower tension solution seems to be logical.

ed


At 11:26 AM 11/27/2004 +0000, Martin Shepherd wrote:
>Dear Ed,
>
>A very interesting thread, this.  I'm sticking my head a bit above the
>parapet this time just on a point of information.  A roped gut string will
>always be a bigger diameter than a loaded string because it is less dense.
>In fact it will also be bigger and more difficult to finger than a
>smooth-surfaced gut string of the same density and mass.
>
>Recently I unearthed some roped gut strings which I made and used some years
>ago.  They were flexible and true (and not very "knobbly"), but compared to
>a plain gut string they have a duller, softer sound.  I think it must be
>because the strands of the rope are free to slide against each other to some
>extent, or there are small gaps so they are not fully in contact.  But it
>convinced me that the "final solution" to the problem of gut bass strings is
>not going to involve roping.  Incidentally a pretty strong argument against
>roping is that none of the people who could have mentioned it did (Capirola,
>Dowland, Mace, Burwell) - in fact thay all say the signs of goodness are the
>same for bass strings as they are for treble strings: clear against the
>light, smooth, stiff to the finger. (for sources see my sit
>www.luteshop.co.uk under "Lute strings ancient and modern".
>
>It seems we have little alternative but to experiment with lower tensions.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Martin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Stephan Olbertz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 9:44 AM
>Subject: Re: thoughts on low tension on Baroque lutes
>
>
> >
> > Stephan Olbertz wrote:
> >>this thread led me to re-read Segerman's article on his
> >>website at
> >>http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/LuSt.html
> >
> > Thanks for this. There is a lot of food for thought in that article.
> > He says:
> >>It is possible to approach the original type of sound balance with
> >>modern materials. We can twist nylon and PVF and make ropes out of
> >>them. We have been showing this stringing on a vihuela at the London
> >>Early Music Exhibition for some years now...
> >
> > This is exactly what I was wondering about the other day when I
> > listened again to a cassette lecture (available from the LSA) about
> > gut stringing by  Damien Dlugolecki. Has anyone tried twisting NylGut
> > into Catlines or rope strings?
> >
> > I am definitely not satisfied with wound basses. My lute came with
> > loaded gut basses when I got it, which sounded great but were
> > useless, as far as I was concerned, because they were out of tune
> > with the octaves when fretted. One other problem with playing
> > technique is the difference in size between strings within a course.
> > If the difference is too great, it causes problems with the angle one
> > can use with the finger when fretting and bar chords. I would like to
> > know if roped strings are thinner than loaded gut strings with an
> > equivalent tension.
> > cheers,
> > --
> > Ed Durbrow
> > Saitama, Japan
> > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> > --
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202




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