Jim, also a good description of a harp stroke. But to another's point as to the zen of making the sound, the conscious and the unconscious. Years ago I was a rather competant skier - actually an instructor and a rescue patrolman. Some years after I quit I went on a day excursion to help a friend on an outing with beginners. I was on rented skiis (but still had my own boots). At a point in the day he and I went up on an expert trail (he was a new "expert") and I got in trouble banging a mogul field. When I skiied up to him he said "how did you do that', my reaction was what did I do? (Reconstruction said that I'd caught the off side of a mogul and been bounced, then made a mid-air turn to set up the landing and the rest of the run - but I didn't know that).
In the same light, I work at the lute - but I pick up the guitar and don't even know what string I'm playing, as the chess master Sammy Reshevsky said when asked how many moves ahead he planned, "one, but it is always the right one". OK, what is the point? Or am I just boasting of other achievements in other areas. If you are young and have the "chops" you don't have to seek the zen, if you are a bit older and the muscle memory is developing Alzheimer's then you will have to give a bit more thought to gaining the skills - they will leave you in very short time. But it isn't philosophical, it is music. If you can "hear" it then you can play it (but not as fast as those young bucks). But there is nothing wrong with a slow pace, as long as it is played with the feeling of the song. Don't fall into the trap of paralysis by analysis. Best, Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A Stimson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephan Olbertz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding > > > > > Dear Stephan, Carl and All: > Federico Marincola once described the action of playing through a lute > string (or course) as "quick like a mousetrap," which comports nicely with > your analogy of a sling or catapult. Thus the action would begin more > slowly, depressing the string(s) down toward the table (as opposed to > displacing it sideways), then quickly accelerating through the string. > After the stroke is completed, with a bit of follow-through, a complete > relaxation of the finger and hand typically should bring it back very > quickly to the original starting position. An excess of tension sometimes > interferes with this rapid relaxation/return, so that's also something to > watch for. > Cheers and happy holidays, > Jim > > > > > "Stephan Olbertz" > <Stephan.Olbertz@ To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > web.de> cc: > Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding > 12/20/2004 05:59 > PM > > > > > > > Dear Carl, > > thank you for your answer. Initially I didn't understand what you meant by > "grabbing" in your earlier post. Yesterday I thought I had the answer > because I experimented a bit with my lute and tried out what I wanted to > describe in answer to Dennis' post. Suddenly I realized that one can relax > the endjoint until right in the middle of the stroke and _then_ flex it. > This gives a kind of catapult or sling effect with a lot of power but very > small movements and works both thumb in and out, and it sounds great (to my > ears). Actually it feels very much like grabbing at the tips, but now I see > that you had something different in mind. Interestingly the > interossei-muscles (between the bones of the hand) which flex the finger in > the first and extend it in the middle joint take very much part. I played a > lot like this while studying guitar but then never thought to consciously > play with the endjoints to. Playing without nails makes experimenting so > much easier, because you don't have t! > o constantly file your nails to suit the technique. > Thanks to Dennis for giving the initial kick! > > Regards, > > Stephan > > > Carl Donsbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 20.12.04 16:23:07: > > Stephan, et al., > The end joint is usually bent slightly inward - into the stroke - which > gives strength, but at the same time makes it easier to do a good free > stroke. > -Carl > > > --On Friday, December 17, 2004 6:36 PM +0100 Stephan Olbertz > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Dear Carl, > > > > this is quite interesting (although nails do not prevent such a > > technique, it all depends on filing and various angles). Did he teach > > the end joint to be flexible or not? > > > > And how do our best thumb-outsiders on the baroque lute (North and > > others) deal with this detail? Does someone have first hand > experience? > > > > Regards, > > > > Stephan > > > > Am 16 Dec 2004 um 18:24 hat Carl Donsbach geschrieben: > > > > > I played CG for years without nails. My solution to the volume > > > > > problem came about during my study with Hector Garcia, one of > Pujol's > > > > > students. The manner of attacking the string is less of a glossing > > > > > over or plucking the string, as with the nail or a plectrum, and > more > > > > > of a downward plunging action. The fingertip sort of "grabs" and > > > > > releases the string. Over time the fingertips develop a ridge of > > > > > slightly hardened skin, not like a left-hand callous, but enough to > > > > > make for a surer attack and a louder sound. > > > > > > > > > > After a time I also found a source for gut guitar strings. I found > > > > > that their rougher texture made it much easier to control the > attack. > > > > > > > > > > -Carl Donsbach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --On Tuesday, December 14, 2004 8:33 PM -0700 David Cassetti > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > James, > > > > > > > > > > > > That's very interesting. If you have any insight into how your > > > > > > student achieves such a sound I'm all ears. > > > > > > > > > > > > Before obtaining a lute I played classical guitar thumb-under > > > > > > without nails (about 8 years). While it was better than nothing, I > > > > > > found that it took a great deal of effort to get any sound volume > > > > > > compared to nails. The very high tension of the guitar strings > seem > > > > > > to be one of the problems. The modern classical guitar seems very > > > > > > unresponsive to finger pads. Now that I have a lute the contrast > > > > > > seems accentuated because the lute is so "live". > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> In a message dated 12/14/2004 6:38:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I bet a lot of lute-netters have a > > > > > >> classical guitar laying around in its case. I wonder what > > solutions > > > > > >> have been invented to play the guitar without maintaining > > > > > >> fingernails: Hi David, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I have a guitar student who plays without nails on a standard > > > > > >> classical > > > > > >> guitar, with nylon strings, and he gets a beautiful sound. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> James > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Mit WEB.DE FreePhone mit hoechster Qualitaet ab 0 Ct./Min. > weltweit telefonieren! http://freephone.web.de/?mc=021201 > > > > > > > > >
