Thomas, On closer inspection, of that painting, one can notice, the 6th course riding off the fingerboard, as well as, the peg cheek on the bass side extends beyond the width of nut. In addition to that, the rose is nowhere near centered between the bridge and the neck. However, the rose is varnished, and the finger board does extend onto the body, at least this is accurate Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left handthumb to stopbass notes
> It is also possible (by the same token) that Ruysdal painted his trees off > the bonsai shrubbery on his windowsill. > However in case of real portraiture it was common to use body doubles for > important people who had no time to pose. Therefore an artist (as opposed to > a hack) probably painted a lutenist from a real lutenist, as lutenists were > not exactly occupied with running countries and waging wars. > Moreover, the draftsmanship of the time was such that a professional artist > could produce a perfectly realistic imaginary lutenist, simply synthesizing > one from memory, even without aid of a sketchbook. > RT > ______________ > Roman M. Turovsky > http://polyhymnion.org/swv > > > > > > Many professional artists of the day carried around a number of pre-painted > > items that all they had to do was insert face. So, yes it is possible the > > person actually holding the Lute was Schlubb, a fourteen year old peasant > > boy. > > > > Vance Wood. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:09 PM > > Subject: RE: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left hand thumb > > to stopbass notes > > > > > >>> Yet another possibility is that the owner of the face might not be > >> the owner of the hands. It would not be uncommon for a studio > >> assistant to pose for most of the modeling of the figure (including > >> the pose holding the lute), while the portrait head would be worked > >> out from sketches made of the real sitter. In many cases the subject > >> of a portrait would have been too busy and important to spend hours > >> sitting in a fixed position modeling for an artist. So a live model > >> would stand in. After the figure had been finished and the face > >> mostly painted, the painting would be given its final touches in a > >> relatively few sessions with the actual subject of the portrait. > >> > >> If this portrait is indeed Francesco da Milano, it doesn't > >> necessarily follow that the pose holding the lute is that of a > >> trained lutenist. It could have been the artist's 14-year-old > >> brother who was the right height and was acting as a cheap model. > >> > >> We know, for instance, that in many cases the female figures in > >> Renaissance paintings (whether portraits, religious figures or female > >> allegories) were actually painted using the young male assistants of > >> the artist as models. You can't take these paintings at face value > >> (no pun intended). > >> > >> Tim > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---- Original Message ---- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > >>> Subject: RE: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left > >>> hand thumb to stopbass notes > >>> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:16:43 +0100 > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> this site is a great source for lute pictures! > >>>> I don't want to insist but ... for acuracy see > >>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1-Pages/Image115.html (introdiced > >>> on the > >>>> site as possible portrait of Francesco da Milano) and imagine what a > >>> thumb > >>>> this guy must have had. Anyway the chord he fingered looks plausible > >>> and > >>>> the right hand position (including the position of the fingers), > >>> too. What > >>>> chord would you choose when posing for a paintig? Surely a rather > >>> common > >>>> one (as in 115, where a F-Major is depicted assuming G-Tuning) - > >>> B-E-c > >>>> would be a rather odd chord for that. > >>>> > >>>> As already mentioned by others: > >>>> It's well possible that the guy of the picture in question just > >>> "posed" and > >>>> the position of his left hand fingers are just like "grabbing" the > >>> lute. If > >>>> you take a look at /image30.html you see the thumb raising over the > >>> neck > >>>> but is not fingering. I wonder how the chord would sound fingering > >>> like > >>>> that > >>>> > >>>> And regarding the original picture I wonder at which time it was > >>> painted. > >>>> The lute model looks interesting ... > >>>> > >>>> Best wishes > >>>> Thomas > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 17.02.2005 16:12:23 > >>>> > >>>> An: LUTE-LIST <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > >>>> Kopie: > >>>> > >>>> Thema: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left hand thumb to > >>> stop > >>>> bass notes > >>>> > >>>>> so play the chord this guy here is fingering. (Bb on the 6th > >>> course, E > >>>> on > >>>>> the the 5th, C on the 3rd assuming a ren- lute in G) Which fingers > >>> on > >>>> your > >>>>> right hand would you use? > >>>>> * The right hand doesn't seem to pluck the strings this guy is > >>> fingering > >>>>> (he seems to pluck the 2nd and 4th string ) ... > >>>> That doesn't mean much. His right hand might have plucked and the > >>> left > >>>> lagged. > >>>> Alfonso Marin's iconography page has a staggering number of > >>> left-thumbers > >>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1.html, some protruding, some > >>> fretting. > >>>> RT > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are > >>> confidential and > >>>> may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify > >>> the > >>>> sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another > >>> person, use > >>>> it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
