Eugene,
Yes, I agree Len's site is a bit bias towards the pre Torres guitar, but
after adding up the facts it is pretty clear, at least to me, that the only
original thing Torres did was to develop the modern proportions that are
really unsurpassed to this day.
In stating that the 6 string guitar was invented at the same time as the
Brunner, I should have said ... about the same time.
To make things even more confusing, a concert revue of Giuliani states
that the 6 string guitar was his invention. Torres is said to have invented
the tuning machines as well, funny though that the Panormo in the BMFA dated
1823 has Baker tuners. These guys will say anything!
As you said, the point is, wound strings were around for a long time,
at least ( about) a hundred years before the Brunner was built.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute net"
<lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: wound basses
> Greetings Michael et al.
>
> Yes, I am familiar with Len's site...and the Tyler & Sparks text it is
> referencing on the linked page...and am pretty comfortable with theories
of
> guitar evolution to boot. I think Len's bullets are a little too general
> and, while generally factual, often are selected to support his
> anti-post-Torres guitar bias; e.g., "Fan bracing with 3-7 fans was used
> since the 1750's in Spanish guitars; it was not invented by Torres" (an
> obvious statement of the obvious) or "String lengths on Baroque and early
> Spanish 6-string instruments were longer than a concert Ramirez" (assuming
> Len has 66 cm in mind as a concert Ramirez: of course, scale length of
> baroque-era guitars commonly exceeded 68 cm, but were highly variable,
> often falling comfortably under 64 cm, and scale length of full-size,
> pre-Torres guitars specifically built to carry six strings typically was a
> scant ca. 60-64 cm).
>
> Even being generous with Len's "mid 1770s" estimate of 6-string guitar
> appearance in the absence of dedicated literature or extant instruments,
we
> are still falling a comfortable decade after 1765. However, I think he
may
> have misstated "6-string guitars were around since the mid 1770s" and
> intended to say "single-strung guitars..." You'll have to forgive me...or
> feel free to correct me; I am typing from my day-job office and removed
> from formal print references. It's all really moot, however, given the
> point I was intending to address was that of silver-wound silk basses,
> which we all agree certainly were in use at that time on a variety of
> stringy things.
>
> Best,
> Eugene
>
>
>
> At 12:55 PM 2/28/2005, Michael Thames wrote:
> >Eugene,
> >
> >a.. The 6-course guitar arose first in Spain in the 1750's, with double
> >strings (same as today's 12-string guitar)
> >a.. Merits of single vs. double stringing was debated on 5 and 6 course
> >guitars since at least the 1770's
> >a.. String improvements allowed cheap and readily accessible wire-wound
> >basses in the 1780's
> >a.. 6-string guitars were around since the mid 1770's, but were not
popular
> >until the late 1790's
> >a.. The 6-single string "modern" guitar was not invented on a particular
> >date, but rather was a product of centuries of evolution.
> >a.. Most experts agree the single-course, 6-string guitar began to appear
> >commonly around 1785 as several extant instruments prove. However, it was
> >invented earlier but was not popular, and many single-course variants
like
> >the arch-guitar, lyre-guitar with 7-10 or more strings apparently
preceded
> >it in the 18th century.
> >a.. More info. http://home.houston.rr.com/verrett/erg/erg/evolution.htm
> >Michael Thames
> >www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> >Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:40 AM
> >Subject: Re: wound basses
> >
> >
> > > At 03:38 PM 2/26/2005, Michael Thames wrote:
> > > >...1765, the same time when first classical guitar, with single
strings
> > > >(Wound metal on silk) started to appear.
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, such guitars didn't come until a couple decades later...but
the
> > > first Neapolitan mandolins did appear around this time and did use a g
of
> > > silver-wound silk as stated in the early methods published in 1760s
Paris.
> > >
> > > Eugene
>
>
>
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