i thought it was thomas who made it to india -
probably brought his uke.

- bill

--- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Alain,
>    I appreciate your input and logical perspective.
> 
>     I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if
> there is any evidence -
> let alone convincing - that Jesus traveled to India
> 
>     Let me say firstly, that I read, write and speak
> to a small degree
> Tibetan.  I've taught Tibetan at various Buddhist
> institutions in San
> Francisco and Santa Fe, NM.
>     There is a Buddhist monastery in Laddak near the
> Kashmir valley in north
> India with the entire life of Christ written in
> Tibetan and integrated with
> the Buddhist teaching.  In that monastery they claim
> to have Christ's
> remains,... remember the three wise men from the
> east?
>     Also, in various places in India are paintings
> dating back to when
> Christ was alive with his name on them, he was known
> there to have studied
> in various monasteries,  and the Buddhist considered
> Him a great
> Bodhisattva.  I forget which one of Christ's direct
> disciples ( Mark ?)died
> in southern India after establishing one of the
> oldest still surviving sects
> of Christianity. Only decades after the death of
> Christ.  Maybe Mathias
> knows.
> 
> > There would be nothing
> >extraordinary in a cultural exchange of medical
> ideas >between Greece and
> >India, but it may be hard to decide who gave what
> to >whom. The 4 Greek
> >humors, associated with the 4 elements, don't seem
> to >match the three
> >listed below anyway.
> 
>       A small technicality, 3 or 4 humors, the urine
> analysis is consistent.
> This version is hard to swallow India's medical
> system predates any.
> 
> 
> >I am tempted to think that, while there is clear
> and >documented evidence
> >of Greek influence on Buddhist art and civilization
> in >Northern India,
> >very little went the other way, not because the
> Indians >were not
> >civilized, but because the Greek army got cut off
> from its >base and had
> >no choice but to be completely assimilated in India
> over >a couple of
> >centuries
> 
>    This is true, however the Greek influence in
> Buddhist images occurred
> well after the death of the Buddha. I have no
> problem with an exchange of
> cultures. This is my whole point.
> 
> > In other words, it seems likely that European
> >monasteries, at least in the West, owed more to the
> old >Roman villas -
> >with their persistent, active connection to Rome,
> than to >India, Tibet,
> 
>     This is thinking within the box, with all due
> respect. This is western
> mans perspective isn't it?  That monasteries evolved
> out of a material
> benefit, rather than spiritual benefit.
>    To think that a culture ( India) that all of
> Europe and the rest of the
> world was seeking desperately to do trade with, from
> antiquity up to the
> time of Columbus, Had zero effect on middle east
> culture and  Europe?
> 
> Michael Thames
> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alain Veylit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr.
> Marion Ceruti"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTE-LIST"
> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Jon Murphy"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM
> Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology
> 
> 
> > I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if
> there is any evidence -
> > let alone convincing - that Jesus travelled to
> India, but we do know
> > that the Greeks went there a few centuries earlier
> (at the time of
> > Aristotle) and even stayed quite a while, after
> the medical luminaries
> > of the time failed to save Alexander's life. There
> would be nothing
> > extraordinary in a cultural exchange of medical
> ideas between Greece and
> > India, but it may be hard to decide who gave what
> to whom. The 4 Greek
> > humors, associated with the 4 elements, don't seem
> to match the three
> > listed below anyway.
> > I am tempted to think that, while there is clear
> and documented evidence
> > of Greek influence on Buddhist art and
> civilisation in Northern India,
> > very little went the other way, not because the
> Indians were not
> > civilised, but because the Greek army got cut off
> from its base and had
> > no choice but to be completely assimilated in
> India over a couple of
> > centuries.
> > Besides, from the little I know about religion, it
> seems that
> > monasticism in Europe was a very late development
> (6th or 7th century
> > perhaps), with a definitely European rationale
> (i.e. barbarians of all
> > kinds wreaking havoc in all unprotected areas) and
> mode of organization
> > and hierarchy. In other words, it seems likely
> that European
> > monasteries, at least in the West, owed more to
> the old Roman villas -
> > with their persistent, active connection to Rome,
> than to India, Tibet,
> > or China.
> >  From various pictorial and architectural
> evidence, it does not seem to
> > me that the lute penetrated Europe much before the
> 13th century, and by
> > that time it had already a long history in Arab
> countries. In fact,
> > isn't it in the 13th century that exchanges of all
> kinds flourished
> > between the Muslim and Christina worlds, via
> Spain, and the university
> > in Salamanca?
> > The period of a little more of a century before
> the Black Death, in my
> > opinion, is the one that truly deserves to be
> called the Renaissance:
> > strong population growth, deforestation on a huge
> scale, inventions like
> > the mill, the glass lens, architectural
> breakthroughs, establishment of
> > roads and international fairs, development of
> literature (Chrestien de
> > Troyes and Dante), adoption of Arab science in
> astrology and algebra,
> > and probably importation of the oud and the
> plague, thanks to increased
> > contact with the East.
> > Now, if someone could actually document the
> history of the oud, that
> > would be interesting to me.
> > Alain
> >
> > Michael Thames wrote:
> >
> > >>There where
> > >>well establish trade routes from India to the
> middle east.  There is
> some
> > >>pretty convincing evidence that Christ traveled
> to India >at that time,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >and
> > >
> > >
> > >>That "Gospel Vindaloo theory" doesn't hold
> lassi, I'm >afraid.....
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >  Roman, another puzzle for you to ponder in your
> dismissal of eastern
> > >influence on the west.  The Chinese and Indians
> have what is considered
> the
> > >oldest system of medicine known to man. Actually
> it is considered to be
> of
> > >Indian origin.  It is based on the principles of
> the three humors ( heat,
> 
=== message truncated === 

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