i thought it was thomas who made it to india - probably brought his uke. - bill
--- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alain, > I appreciate your input and logical perspective. > > I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if > there is any evidence - > let alone convincing - that Jesus traveled to India > > Let me say firstly, that I read, write and speak > to a small degree > Tibetan. I've taught Tibetan at various Buddhist > institutions in San > Francisco and Santa Fe, NM. > There is a Buddhist monastery in Laddak near the > Kashmir valley in north > India with the entire life of Christ written in > Tibetan and integrated with > the Buddhist teaching. In that monastery they claim > to have Christ's > remains,... remember the three wise men from the > east? > Also, in various places in India are paintings > dating back to when > Christ was alive with his name on them, he was known > there to have studied > in various monasteries, and the Buddhist considered > Him a great > Bodhisattva. I forget which one of Christ's direct > disciples ( Mark ?)died > in southern India after establishing one of the > oldest still surviving sects > of Christianity. Only decades after the death of > Christ. Maybe Mathias > knows. > > > There would be nothing > >extraordinary in a cultural exchange of medical > ideas >between Greece and > >India, but it may be hard to decide who gave what > to >whom. The 4 Greek > >humors, associated with the 4 elements, don't seem > to >match the three > >listed below anyway. > > A small technicality, 3 or 4 humors, the urine > analysis is consistent. > This version is hard to swallow India's medical > system predates any. > > > >I am tempted to think that, while there is clear > and >documented evidence > >of Greek influence on Buddhist art and civilization > in >Northern India, > >very little went the other way, not because the > Indians >were not > >civilized, but because the Greek army got cut off > from its >base and had > >no choice but to be completely assimilated in India > over >a couple of > >centuries > > This is true, however the Greek influence in > Buddhist images occurred > well after the death of the Buddha. I have no > problem with an exchange of > cultures. This is my whole point. > > > In other words, it seems likely that European > >monasteries, at least in the West, owed more to the > old >Roman villas - > >with their persistent, active connection to Rome, > than to >India, Tibet, > > This is thinking within the box, with all due > respect. This is western > mans perspective isn't it? That monasteries evolved > out of a material > benefit, rather than spiritual benefit. > To think that a culture ( India) that all of > Europe and the rest of the > world was seeking desperately to do trade with, from > antiquity up to the > time of Columbus, Had zero effect on middle east > culture and Europe? > > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alain Veylit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. > Marion Ceruti" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTE-LIST" > <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Jon Murphy" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology > > > > I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if > there is any evidence - > > let alone convincing - that Jesus travelled to > India, but we do know > > that the Greeks went there a few centuries earlier > (at the time of > > Aristotle) and even stayed quite a while, after > the medical luminaries > > of the time failed to save Alexander's life. There > would be nothing > > extraordinary in a cultural exchange of medical > ideas between Greece and > > India, but it may be hard to decide who gave what > to whom. The 4 Greek > > humors, associated with the 4 elements, don't seem > to match the three > > listed below anyway. > > I am tempted to think that, while there is clear > and documented evidence > > of Greek influence on Buddhist art and > civilisation in Northern India, > > very little went the other way, not because the > Indians were not > > civilised, but because the Greek army got cut off > from its base and had > > no choice but to be completely assimilated in > India over a couple of > > centuries. > > Besides, from the little I know about religion, it > seems that > > monasticism in Europe was a very late development > (6th or 7th century > > perhaps), with a definitely European rationale > (i.e. barbarians of all > > kinds wreaking havoc in all unprotected areas) and > mode of organization > > and hierarchy. In other words, it seems likely > that European > > monasteries, at least in the West, owed more to > the old Roman villas - > > with their persistent, active connection to Rome, > than to India, Tibet, > > or China. > > From various pictorial and architectural > evidence, it does not seem to > > me that the lute penetrated Europe much before the > 13th century, and by > > that time it had already a long history in Arab > countries. In fact, > > isn't it in the 13th century that exchanges of all > kinds flourished > > between the Muslim and Christina worlds, via > Spain, and the university > > in Salamanca? > > The period of a little more of a century before > the Black Death, in my > > opinion, is the one that truly deserves to be > called the Renaissance: > > strong population growth, deforestation on a huge > scale, inventions like > > the mill, the glass lens, architectural > breakthroughs, establishment of > > roads and international fairs, development of > literature (Chrestien de > > Troyes and Dante), adoption of Arab science in > astrology and algebra, > > and probably importation of the oud and the > plague, thanks to increased > > contact with the East. > > Now, if someone could actually document the > history of the oud, that > > would be interesting to me. > > Alain > > > > Michael Thames wrote: > > > > >>There where > > >>well establish trade routes from India to the > middle east. There is > some > > >>pretty convincing evidence that Christ traveled > to India >at that time, > > >> > > >> > > >and > > > > > > > > >>That "Gospel Vindaloo theory" doesn't hold > lassi, I'm >afraid..... > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Roman, another puzzle for you to ponder in your > dismissal of eastern > > >influence on the west. The Chinese and Indians > have what is considered > the > > >oldest system of medicine known to man. Actually > it is considered to be > of > > >Indian origin. It is based on the principles of > the three humors ( heat, > === message truncated === Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html