-----Original Message----- From: Sean Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Mar 30, 2005 5:46 PM To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: Re: Montagna's lutes
Marion, Often a lute duo would consist of a tenorista playing the tenor perhaps with a plectrum (or fingers) or playing the tenor and another noncantus line w/out plectrum (or in combination? see below). Most of the vocal nonliturgical music (but by no means all) from this period is for 3 voices and this works fairly often. ++Yes, I am familiar with this music. A very good example would be the duet of the chanson, "Je ne fay" in the first Spinacino book. There, the 2nd lute part is a nearly exact intabulation of the lower voices and the top line rattles around in variations on the cantus that would fit nicely w/ the plectrum. ++Generally it would work well with the cantus or some variant. A more exact setting is in the first Petrucci Odhecaton (A). Yet another setting for organ sets the lower 2 voices in organ tab and the cantus (w/ diminuations) in mensural notation, again, offering a variety of interpretations. ++I have looked for a copy of this work and so far I have not been able to find one. I have plenty of CDs of it so the music must be available somewhere. It predates the Cantus B. The words can be found in H.H.'s Odh A or H.M.Brown's "A Florentine Chansonniere" and the latter translates the humorous text. ++Interesting. Thanks for the information. There are more many examples in various manuscripts that fit the lute duo scenario. Whether they are *specifically* for lutes is open to debate but Crawford and the late Mr. Schroeder make a strong argument to the positive. ++I suppose there are endless variations of plucked string duets, or trios for that matter. Case in point is the CD Three, Four and Twenty Lutes with Jakob Lundberg, et al. and Emily Van Evera among other fine singers - proof positive that there is nothing so beautiful as a bunch of lutes accompanying singer(s). By the way, I received a note from another of Crawford Young's duet partners who says another lute technique is to pluck w/ the plectrum and still use other fingers to get another voice in. ++Does anyone have a video of that? all the best, Sean Best to you, Sean, Marion On Mar 30, 2005, at 8:29 AM, Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote: > > Hi Ed, > > I was lucky enough to find a book of this type of music on eBay. It is > rare > and out of print. It is the Canti B Numero Cinquanta Vol. II by > Ottaviano Petrucci > Edited by Helen Hewitt. The pieces are arranged in 3 or 4 parts each > with > a single note at once. No chords are written for any single part taken > separately. If you wanted to, you could play each single line with the > plectrum but with only two people playing one could use a plectrum but > the other one would need to use fingers or miss some of the parts. > > Are you sure that Crawford Young used a plectrum? He could have chosen > that but how did he get that sound quality? Do you know what kind of a > plectrum > he used? Where and how is he striking the strings to get that quality? > > I have tried to play the lute using a plectrum and but so far, I > cannot duplicate > that sound quality. Do you suppose the plectrum techniques for lute > differed > in those days from those we use today? Then again I don't have a lute > in A or in E. > > Best, > Marion > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Mar 29, 2005 7:08 PM > To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Sean Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Subject: Re: Montagna's lutes > > Marion, I do believe Crawford Yound used a plectrum on the upper > parts. > > ed > > At 06:19 PM 3/29/2005 -0800, Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote: >> Dear Sean, >> >> Thank you for posting these pictures. The same picture is on the >> cover of >> Karl-Ernst Schroder and Crawford Young's CD, "Amours amours amours" >> released in 2002 by Harmonia Mundi HMC905254. In fact two A lutes were >> used in this recording as well as a lute in E. If the music on the CD >> is any >> indication of what the concert depicted in the picture was supposed >> have >> on the program, I doubt that a plectrum was used. >> >> Best regards, >> Marion >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sean Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Mar 29, 2005 4:00 PM >> To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Subject: Montagna's lutes >> >> >> Having lived in the 6-course world for a while now I'm very interested >> in the left lute in this painting by Montagna: >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1-Pages/Image198.html >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1-Pages/Image199.html >> >> It appears M. tried to be very realistic in the proportions, colors >> and >> detail and I think there may be enough information in it to actually >> build a copy. Granted we don't know the string length or the back >> shape >> but some of this could be educatedly guessed at. >> >> Has anyone had a lute built in this shape (or built one) and if so >> what >> are your conclusions? Might it make a good F or A lute? (I'm set for >> G) >> Are there any surving lutes, complete or not, that might suggest a >> precedent for this triangular, wide-belly shape? >> >> By the by, some have rumored to have seen a plectrum in this painting >> but in the detail, I honestly don't see it. Granted this is a >> ficticious concert (angels, etc), and while the weight lately has been >> to give most lute playing in this era a pick of some kind (or to one >> of >> the players), I don't see the plectrum support in this instance. On >> the >> other hand, so to speak, I see support for playing 15th century music >> in the same polyphonic way as the next. Fascinating right hand >> technique on the blond plucker, too. >> >> And my thanks to Alfonso for posting this page of lute iconography. >> Here's the rest of it: >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1.html >> >> all the best, >> Sean Smith >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > >
