Thomas,
A jazz friend recently told me there is a society of classical musicians
devoted to improvising in counterpoint.
I like your comparison of the Passacaglia and modern blues . I never
thought of it that way.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 1:21 AM
Subject: Antwort: Re: Blind players and memory
>
>
>
>
>
> The funny thing about one of their meetings (Bach and Weiss along with
> Kropffgans) was the BWV 1025 which is a lute sonata by Weiss to which Bach
> obviously improvised (and later worked out) a violin part.
> Improvising fugues and passacalias was common at their time (organists now
> start to revive that tradition). The Passacalia is as the other bass
models
> basically a chordal pattern which could possibly be compared to the blues
> scheme. Of course the general taste of the baroque was much more refined
> and subtle than our taste today but improvising over a bass theme is more
> or less "adding more or less prepared scales to a given scheme".
>
> Best wishes
> Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 11.04.2005 07:37:32
>
> An: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Kopie:
>
> Thema: Re: Blind players and memory
>
> >Indeed, the fact of improvisation makes the reading vs. >memory argument
> moot.
> >Performance from memory mimics the act of spontaneous >creation that
truly
> occurs
> >in improvisation.
>
> " Memory, mimics spontaneous creation ". Sounds good, but doesn't
> really
> make any sense.
> Performance from memory, and improvisation are two completely
> different things, otherwise you wouldn't be improvising now would you?
Why
> did you need the sheet music in front of you? I'm assuming there might
have
> been three chords at the most to remember, with the rest filled in with
> some
> well tested scales.
> The idea that you, or I, could come up with a masterpiece, or
anything
> worth writing down, whilst improvising is quite comical.
> Weiss, and Bach, improvised together at least once. However they were
> improvising in counterpoint, much different than some scales over a 13th
> century chant.
> I'm happy though, that you managed to charm the daylights out of your
> guitar friend.
> There is hope for us all!
> Michael Thames
> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
>
>
> >
> > Indeed, the fact of improvisation makes the reading vs. memory argument
> moot.
> > Performance from memory mimics the act of spontaneous creation that
truly
> occurs
> > in improvisation.
> >
> > Just a few hours ago I performed a concert based on 13th and 14th
century
> > repertoire associated with St. Francis of Assisi. (With sheet music).
> > Afterward, an audience member who apparently listens to a lot of guitar
> music
> > expressed his great appreciation for the lute playing. I don't know if
> it
> was a
> > revelation to him to have an emotional response to music performed from
a
> score,
> > but he was certainly dumbstruck to learn that several of the solos I
> performed
> > were completely improvised.
> >
> > Maybe that $50 ticket should be spent not on Romeo and Juliet, but on
> Hamlet:
> >
> > There are more things in heaven and earth Horatio,
> > than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 4:57 PM
> > To: Arto Wikla
> > Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
> >
> >
> > Arto,
> > As I've said, I site read now more than I memorize. As having come
> from
> > a classical guitar back ground,where everyone memorizes, I found this
> > lutenistic tradition of only site reading ( written in stone) a bit
> > perplexing.
> > I've asked for sources citing evidence for this lutenistic
tradition,
> > yet no one has come forward, with anything.
> > Sorry to use the term amateur,or non professional, but I was not
> using
> > them in a derogatory way.
> > As far as where you look,as your playing,I could careless. This is
> all
> > stage presence and up to each individual performer, to with as they see
> fit.
> > All I can say is most super star classical performers thesedays tend
to
> > memorize their music.
> > If I want to hear the music I'll stay home and put on a CD, but if I
> pay
> > $50.00 a ticket I hope you could recite Romeo and Juliet,without a
> script,
> > between you,and the audience.
> >
> > Michael Thames
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Arto Wikla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Michael and all
> >
> > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Michael Thames comments:
> >
> > > >This brings to mind another point in the debate about >performing
from
> > > memory or
> > > >score. Ever notice how most guitarists stare at their >hands while
> > > playing,
> > > >while a few look into the rafters or close their eyes >(drawing
divine
> > > >inspiration, perhaps)? I wonder which exhibit greater
> >professionalism
> > >
> > > I would say that you might want to consider the music above
all.
> > > However, it is nice to see a performer in a setting where one might
get
> > the
> > > impression that it's he, or she, and the audience, and not a third
> party
> > > love affair with your sheet music.
> >
> > It is so difficult to me to take any offence, if someone is using the
> > sheet music. It is in a way the contrary: When someone is playing a big
> > program by hart, I am so worried, and also symphatise and pity the poor
> > performer that it really diminishes my ability to relax and enjoy the
> > music! An extreme case was in the Nordic Baroque Festival in 2001, where
> > Pieter Wispelway had a concert, where he played ALL the six Cello Suites
> > by certain J.S. Bach. He did it well, very well. But he played by heart,
> > and that is why I was all the time very worried... ;-)
> >
> > And by the way, many times during the concert he was looking to the
> > ceiling of the church, probably wishing help from the divine forces? ;)
> >
> > Anyhow, I would have enjoyed more of the conert, if he had had the music
> > stand in front of him! It doesn't have mattered, if there were empty
> > papers or today's newspaper on the stand...
> >
> > Summa summarum: If you improvise, you improvise. If you play - if
> > you "repeat" - the music composed by another, you are perfectly allowed
> > to use the sheet music. Why not? At least that does not diminísh MY
> > experience...
> >
> > Arto
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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