Dear Michael, Ed has explained the "split" third course very nicely in his mailing so I don't need to mention that. If you look closely at some of the early 16c. tablatures you will find that the upper octave of the 4th course is sometimes forming part of the melody line. Marco Dall'Aquila uses this effect sometimes, and often uses chord fingerings that accentuate the octave strings on the lower courses. If you play 6 course lute a lot you start to notice these subtleties. There are, of course, times when you need to accentuate the lower note on the octave pairs. Very often the fingering will do this for you, as a downstoke with the thumb naturally accentuates the lower note and an upstroke with the forefinger (usually indicated by a dot below the note) likewise gives a slight edge to the upper octave. So the fingering can sometimes give clues of the composer's intentions. A lute with octave strings from the 4th course downwards is definitely the right instrument for much of the Italian 16th century repertoire. I am so glad to hear that you are enjoying this music - there are some very lovely pieces to be found there and it's surprising how little known some of them are.
Best wishes, Denys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 4:58 AM Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > >Dear Michael, > >I understand why you are confused now! > >You are not looking at the original. > > Denys and Leonard, > Thanks for the info. I can see now why I was confused. > > I've always been afraid of Italian tab. However, considering that 90% of > the ren. lute music I play is early Italian perhaps I should make a effort > to read Italian Tab? > > Just in case..... Has anyone produced a good reliable edition of Dalsa, > Spinacino, and Capriola in French Tab. for 6 course lute? > > I was at a Master class with Paul Odette, and had just began playing a > 6 course lute with an octave on the 4th course. I mentioned how strange it > sounded to me after playing an 8 course with the unison 4th course. > Paul then started to demonstrate many examples of the advantages of an > octave on the 4th course. One of the examples was the Padoana by Capriola, > which if I remember correctly he only played the octave at certain times, of > the fourth course? Is this what is meant as splitting a course? > Denys, thanks for the Dalsa peices.... I love this stuff! > > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:39 AM > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > Dear Michael, > > I understand why you are confused now! > > You are not looking at the original. > > > > I have some of the Lyre Music publications myself > > and think that they are extremely valuable - the > > "Art of Lute in Renaissance Italy" make a lot of music > > available that would be very hard and expensive to collect > > in the original sources. In my copy of the "dances" volume > > some of the pieces have been rearranged for 7 course lute - > > this is quite handy for players who have a 7 or 8 course > > instrument as it avoids the need to retune. It's not entirely > > unauthentic as it is recorded that 7 course lutes were known > > in the early 16th century. But the original music was not notated > > that way - both in Dalza & Capirola the pieces with the 6th course > > detuned by a tone are written on a 6 line stave for 6 course lute. > > The same applies for the Dalza pieces that also have the 5th course > > lowered by a tone. All you have to do is retune the relevant basses > > and play as if the instrument was tuned "normally." > > > > Where these pieces have been re-written for a 7 course lute > > it is assumed that the 7th course is tuned a tone below the 6th. > > The notes on the de-tuned 6th course in the original are omitted > > and replaced by the open 7th. > > > > There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition > > I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla Venetiana) > > by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of > "splitting" > > (i.e. dividing) > > the third course into its two component strings and playing different > > notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes > > and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an attempt > > to bypass the > > problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical feature > > from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from the > > lute. > > To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola manuscript > > or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it. > > > > If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the music > > than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro > Quarto" > > published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few typographical > > errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable music. > > I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Denys > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Denys Stephens" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > >Dear Michael, > > > >Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > > > >courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > > > >folio 27v of his book where the instructions > > > >are included at the beginning of the piece. > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > >Denys > > > > > > Thanks Denys, > > > I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book > would > > > you recommend? > > > I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was > > > considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has lots of > > > Dalsa. > > > However, I still don't understand the notation I guess. > > > The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open 7th > > course > > > but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there be > 2 > > > different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning? > > > > > > Michael Thames > > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM > > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > > > > Dear Michael, > > > > Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth > > > > courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see > > > > folio 27v of his book where the instructions > > > > are included at the beginning of the piece. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Denys > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the > >Capirola > > > > lute > > > > > >book. > > > > > > > > > > >Kenneth Be > > > > > > > > > > Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can > see > > in > > > > for > > > > > instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but > what > > > > about > > > > > a Pavana alla Ferrarese by Dalsa, that indicates tuning the 6th > course > > > > down > > > > > a step yet at the same time shows an open "a'' on the 6th courses as > > > well? > > > > > Michael Thames > > > > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:36 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:10:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > I don't know whether any 16th century lute music involves tuning > the > > > 6th > > > > > > course down a tone. Perhaps someone on the list can tell us. > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the > Capirola > > > > lute > > > > > > book. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Be > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
