Dear Anthony, I have not tried KF for the 6th course but I am pretty certain it would be too stiff.
As far as transitions from one course to another are concerned, I think you need to make the 5th course brighter, not compromise the 4th course by making it duller. Having an octave on the 5th but not the 4th can sound very good (and I think is also historically appropriate, especially for Cutting, Holborne, and even Dowland). I too had good experiences with the "Venice" strings from Aquila. I used them for the 5th and 6th courses on a small lute (53.5cm) and they were fine. I must try them on a 60cm lute. I am experimenting with "Real Gut" strings from George Stoppani and Oliver Webber (see http://www.stoppani.co.uk/Real_Gut_Strings.htm). Very brown in colour but surprisingly clear against the light, like very high twist strings. My impression so far is that they are about the same in terms of flexibility as Larson's "pistoys". I don't think the 5th is a particularly difficult course. All-gut stringing simply gets more difficult as you go further down into the bass. String trueness and flexibility are essential, irrespective of the tension used. Low tension can be useful because it means a thinner (and therefore more flexible) string, so there is a tradeoff between what might be the best tension (for a wound string, say) and what might give the best sound for a gut string. It's also worth trading a little bit of volume for more sustain. On a 9c lute I went down to about 20N for the 9th course, paired with a higher tension octave, and that seemed to give better results than a higher tension fundamental. Best wishes, Martin Anthony Hind wrote: > Dear Martin > Good to hear from you again. I am interested in your positive comments > on the KF strings, although at present I will probably stay with gut, > nevertheless on a rainy day, as you say, a good alternative could be > very useful. > How well might these KF strings work on the 6th course? I see that > Jacob only seemed to be using them on the 5th, with gut below, and > nylgut above. > > It is particularly interesting to me, in that my experiments with gut > strings recently, were also to do with the 5th course, which I feel is > a key string, that can be difficult to sort out, if you change to > unison which is implied in your remark about the KF, "I'm not > convinced it would necessarily be successful on a unison course" . > > Obviously, like most gut users, I prefer gut basses because of the > more unified sound across all the strings, as opposed to gut tops and > wirewounds, and also because of the greater clarity when the higher > voices are not drowned by the basses (I know that using old > copper-wounds can go a fair distance in damping them down). > However, with a pair of Gamut Lyon, on my 5th course I still felt felt > that there was a mild tonal break at that course (rather dark in > comparison to the Base + octave below, and also to the smaller low > twist strings above). An octave string would give greater brightness > to the Lyons, and if I had adopted this (as you did with the KF) on > the 5th course I think the problem would disappear. > > Also, when I say problem, it is relative. It is the most noticeable > when playing a scale across courses, and much less obvious in music > passages, but I felt it could still be heard. > I thought of using Lyons on the 4th as well as the 5th, to darken 4th > slightly and lessen the break between the two, but I quickly saw that > Lyons and Pistoys could not be made down to the size of my 4th courses. > > Further searching, showed me that Venice by Aquila, which is a double > twist (similar in this to Gamut Pistoys) can be made down to 0,7, so I > thought that I might lessen the break, by darkening the 4th course > slightly with that. Then I thought that perhaps using Venice both on > the 5th and the 4th could be another step in the right direction. > > In fact, I was quite surprised, the Venice are much brighter than the > Lyons, and there is almost no tonal break, at present, even when > playing a scale across the courses. > At first I thought, this should be completely positive. If people > choose gut basses for greater unity, then those that give even more > unity should surely be best. > > However, I noticed that with the loss of the lyons, I have lost a > little bass thwack on the 5th (like a taut skin-covered drum). In some > simple rhythmic pieces (say, Wilson's Wile), it gave an interesting > onward pulse to the piece. > This could well mean that they would be better than the Venice with > octave strings. However, in a piece like The Countess of Pembroke's > Funerals, where certain "chords" can played broken (see Lindberg > <http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=BIS-CD-451>), then > the greater unity of the Venice strings gives a certain improvement. > > I notice that the Venice are very supple (not like the Lyons) and I > suppose this could be similar in effect to using low tension strings. > At a very high tension a string might have its harmonics dampened > simply through the greater stiffness this gives. Perhaps, a relatively > supple string at a given tension also allows more harmonic development. > (The Venice strings possess a remarkable degree of elasticity and > pliability, superior to any strings currently on the market. This > means a surprisingly ready attack and good richness in upper > overtones » Aquila). > What might your thoughts on that, Martin? It seems to join up with > your previous topic on low-tension stringing. Except that low tension > stringing might also leave the sound-board freer to reonate with > harmonics, and I don't think that would be the case with high > double-twist supple strings. > > Sorry, this is going a little like an advert for Aquila Venice, but I > realise, as pointed out to me by David van Ooijen, that the sound of > strings can depend on the lute, their tension, where you pluck them > (rose, or bridge) and also the skill of the fingers that are plucking > them. Perhaps, some fingers could pluck more high frequency component > out of a Lyon string. Also, as I have already pointed out, a Lyon, > accompanied by an octave string could indeed be better than the > Venice, giving greater overall tonal stretch, than with a Venice > (rather as you imply for the KF strings). However, I can't be sure > about this, as I have not tried it. > > As always, I would be very interested in you remarks > Best wishes > Anthony > > > > > > Le 19 juin 07 à 14:39, Martin Shepherd a écrit : > >> Dear Anthony, >> >> As far as I know, the KF strings are made from PVF. How it is that they >> are less clear and have a less shiny surface I don't know. I just wish >> they made them in slightly smaller sizes - the thinnest is .95mm, >> supposedly the equivalent of a gut string of about 1.1mm, though I doubt >> they are quite that heavy as I find they work well for a 5th course on a >> 60cm lute. I first came across one of these on one of Jacob's lutes, >> and thought it was a gut string - it looked and felt exactly like a >> perfect, low-twist gut string. Even at this diameter, it is quite a >> stiff string, with very little peg movement resulting in a big change in >> pitch, and it takes a while to settle, but once settled in it works >> really well. I'm using it with an octave, of course, on 6c lute, and >> I'm not convinced it would necessarily be successful on a unison course, >> but it makes a very handy alternative for a gut string when you want to >> be "waterproof". >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Martin >> >> Anthony Hind wrote: >> >>> Several previous messages from synthetics users mention the advantage >>> of using carbon strings on the 4th and 5th course to avoid wire- >>> wounds. Nobody, in that discussion (i can recall) mentioned Savarez >>> KF. Some answers contrasted carbon and nylgut, others carbon and gut. >>> However, I notice that Jacob Heringman, who uses gut for recording, >>> says,"For touring and performing, as opposed to recording, I use >>> nylgut in the treble and mid-range, down to the fifth course (though >>> I'm experimenting with Savarez KF strings for the fifth course at the >>> moment), and the above-mentioned gut basses, with nylgut octaves." >>> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/Heringman.html >>> >>> The KF might be an alternative then to carbon for the 5th also for >>> synthetic users (Savarez, in fact, claim the KF are closer in sound >>> and texture to gut), perhaps they have properties in between carbon >>> and nylgut, hopefully, being less slippery than carbon? >>> >>> I have heard people calling them carbon strings, but I think they may >>> be a fluor based product. >>> I have never, tried them myself, but they might be a serious but more >>> expensive alternative for the fifth course for someone using >>> synthetics, who did not want to use wire-wounds, and who does not >>> like carbon fishing line. >>> Personally, I have been comparing Aquila Venice and Gamut Lyons on my >>> 5th course, of which more, perhaps, later. Choices for 4th and 5th >>> strings do seem to be critical for gut users too. >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> <http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html> > >
