ANother detail- there were artist-engravers (like Dürer, Cranach, etc) that
took care of having correct final product. These usually did pure engraving
(mechanical incising that didn't involve etching with acid). As printmaking
proliferated its quality and reliability deteriorated (happily not always).
Later engravers that often relied on third party artwork, and there is no
absolute guarantee that images or details therein face the right way.
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; ""Mathias Rösel"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:05 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: metal contraption/RH on the bridge?
To put it simply, the JG engraver had little motivation to portray the
pegbox with any realism, therefore neither he had any inclination to make
sure whether the lute was a mirror image or not. He engraved the text
correctly, so it could be read, but skipped a VERY CUMBERSOME STEP that
surely would greatly compromise the most important aspect- the likeness of
the sitter (drawing while looking into the mirror rather than your hands is
a nightmare).
(Trust me, I have done dry-point, etching, aquatint etc. an extraordinarily
irritating artform).
RT
To put an end to this daftness: the JG portrait is A PRINT OF AN ENGRAVED
PLATE, therefore it is a MIRROR IMAGE of the actual artwork,
Would you mind to tell us, of which painting this engraving is a copy? I
raise the question since, if the engraving is no copy, it cannot be
considered a mirror image.
Evidence for that assumption, i. e. that it isn't a copy, might be that
there is a text beneath it which is not mirrored.
Claiming that the master picture was mirrored implies that the engraving
contains a severe fault which would have striked any observer. Would
theengraving then have been published and, what's more, would it have
been designated, as it has been, with an inscription according to which
the engraving show a true picture of Jacques Gaultier?
Mathias
and there is
absolutely NO REASON to suppose that Jacques was a lefty.
And besides, as I recall, during the Baroque and earlier eras lefties were
not taught string instruments, and had to limit themselves to keyboards.
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: metal contraption/RH on the bridge?
Mathias
I see why David Van Edwards has inversed the portrait, this question
of the bass strings on the wrong side.
The text is definitely from left to right on the RA engraving, but
this could be a problem due to the engraving process.
You have to inverse the portrait in the original (negative) to get
the correct positive. Perhaps the person who wrote the text was not
the artist
and he did not know how a two-headed lute would look like.
However, there is another possible explanation. The artist might have
wanted Gaultier to look towards the right.
Due to our writing system, this is always the more dynamic direction,
particularly if it is reinforced by a an actual written text.
Thus the inversion could be deliberate.
Furthermore, Gautier (Orpheos) ends up looking towards the rising sun
(correct direction for the myth).
The light however, feels more like that of a setting sun, not perhaps
the image that the painter, engraver, wanted
to develop.
There are also conflicting estimations about the dates of the three
paintings. Some have claimed that all three are in the same year, if
so, then the difference in features does seem rather great, but the
estimations are quite vague. Gaultier would have put on a great deal
of weight in comparison with the other two paintings. However, the
estimations vary, by at least ten years, and this is clearly an
official portrait, while the other two are less so. Could it be that
a well fed man symbolizes a certain success. Should we see this as a
portrait of Jacques, or a portrait of the role he is playing in the
English court? King Charles was supposed to be a master of "mise en
scène", as judged by the colossal Masques he put on to make political
points over his enemies. An official portrait could just be part of
this tendency to "mise en scène", rather than as a true portrait.
Just a few thoughts, this may well have been discussed and put to
rest, by keener eyes than mine.
Anthony
Le 1 janv. 08 à 14:47, Anthony Hind a écrit :
> Mathias
> I have no argument in favour of the van Dyck being a portrait of
> Jacques. It has also been argued that the portrait by Reyn is of
> Jacques :
> http://tinyurl.com/24rdsj
> See, at http://tinyurl.com/27fvgm
> I don't know what the general view of this is either.
>
>> If this is a true picture of Jacques Gaultier:
>> http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/Page%20419.html (right) - and
>> it has been discussed at length that he probably was left-handed, btw,
>> because of the instrument he is holding (the pic is wrong-sidedly
>> rendered in the Early music article).
>>
> However, I am not sure about the left/right sided question.
> What appears to be the original of the engraving, is in the Royal
> Academy, and is rendered in the inverse of the picture on the Van
> Edwards' site.
> Compare :
> http://tinyurl.com/yt8ovw
> and the original, at the RA
> http://tinyurl.com/yvfn5z
> Which is the right way round? Is it a case of positive and negative
> in the engraving process. Jacques is not playing the lute. Can we be
> sure?
>
> There are other reasons why a portrait, or a painting might be inversed:
> One might be the use of a camera obscura, as once it was supposed
> Vermeer had used, but that seems unlikely for a stylized portrait,
> see at
> http://www.grand-illusions.com/vermeer/vermeer2.htm
>
> The other might be for some symbolic reason, as argued for this
> rendering of Criccieth Castle, by Turner.
> http://tinyurl.com/2aj2j9
> Compare with my own photo taken towards Criccieth Castle at sunset:
> http://tinyurl.com/2bf8fa
> It is generally considered that, by inversing the castle, Turner
> increases the feeling of the wildness of the sea, against which the
> castle is now facing.
>
> Perhaps, a move to the left arm was required to focus on the lutist.
> Regards
> Anthony
>
> Le 1 janv. 08 =E0 11:03, Mathias R=F6sel a ecrit :
>
>> "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
>>> Ed
>>> My message was "sabred". I will try again.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>> Perhaps, if this is so, van Dyck is giving an interpretation of
>>> "English" Gaultier, not just as a Chitaronne player see also
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2xa5by
>>> There is some claim that this lute player could be Jacques Gaultier,
>>
>> If this is a true picture of Jacques Gaultier:
>> http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/Page%20419.html (right) - and
>> it has been discussed at length that he probably was left-handed, btw,
>> because of the instrument he is holding (the pic is wrong-sidedly
>> rendered in the Early music article).
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> then this
>> http://www.classiquenews.com/ecouter/lire_article.aspx?
>> article=330&identifiant=7KV764UKJ1E3HWXL4VX6OACYI
>> is certainly not the same man: hair-cut, eyebrows, shape of face. You
>> would expect a painter to depict the traits as truely as possible,
>> wouldn't you. And his instrument is for a right-handed player.
>>
>> Mathias
>>
>>> who it is also claimed escaped from France while he was wanted for
>>> murder, and who later bit a piece out of an English lute player's
>>> face (Jacques did not just leave traces on lute bellies, by all
>>> accounts. See Janet Snowman, in an article, dated December 2006,
>>> entitled APOL LO Academy Pictures On-Line, Robert Spencer)
>>> http://tinyurl.com/239h99
>>> .Regards
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> Le 31 dec. 07 =E0 11:05, Ed Durbrow a ecrit :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 2007, at 4:56 AM, Anthony Hind wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are new photos of unrestored lutes on Mimmo Peruffo's site at
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.aquilacorde.com/lutes.htm
>>>>
>>>> What the heck is that metal contraption on the guy's hand in the
>>>> painting about 3/4 of the way down the page: Anton van Dyck (ca.
>>>> 1630): archlute player? Is he holding a sword too?
>>>>
>>>> Ed Durbrow
>>>> Saitama, Japan
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow
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