Many thanks, Martyn. Nothing there to convince me either that it was commonplace for French theorbo music or for de Visee.
Cheers, Rob www.rmguitar.info -----Original Message----- From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 January 2008 08:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Lute Net' Subject: [LUTE] Re: Small French theorbo in D - evidence? James Talbot Ms (c1695) - Christchurch Library Music MS 1187 (part transcribed in Galpin Soc Journal Vol14 -March 1961) is the only source which clearly and unequivocally describes the instruments where it is called the 'Lesser French Theorboe' (string length works out around 75cm). Talbot also says ' The lesser Theorbo (fitt for lessons [solos?]) carryes the same number of ranks (courses) and Strings with F. Theorbo and is 4 notes higher all the way. Plus other helpful observations. He also confirms the tuning as in d. There is some evidence from M Crevecoeur quoted by Talbot of its use for continuo (and pitch standard. A French source calls for a 'theorbe de pieces' (or similar wording - can't lay my hands on it at the moment). Interestingly, the Saizeny Ms gives the keys of the de Visee theorbe pieces etc as for a theorbo in the usual A tuning, altho' this might have just been a convention and the smaller instrument cld have been intended I suppose. However I find I can play virtually all the pieces on my ordinary theorbo (90cm) - undoubtedly tho' a smaller instrument would make things easier. On similar instruments: I find a particularly useful instrument is a small theorbo with just the first course down the octave, either in A or G (most frequent in England) with a similar string length to the French lesser ie 75cm. The advantage of using the instrument in A is that if you already play the common proper large Italian theorbo in A (ie two two courses down) there's no confusion. Further, I've also speculated some time ago (FoMRHI Quarterly) that the frequent historical references to archlute (esp in England) may, in fact, have been just as likelt to mean small theorbos. Certainly the highest pitched course of one on A would be e' which is only a minor third below the top course of what we now generally think of as an archlute in G. This also allows us to make sense of one of Talbot MS other comments by M Crev. referring to the lesser Fr theorbo: 'This fitter for Thorough Bass than Arch Lute its Trebles being neither below the voice nor Instrs in Consort as Arch Lute' : here I don't think Talbot (or Crev) is saying that the nominal highest pitched note of the Lesser Fr theorbo (e') was higher than that of an archlute (g') [which is clearly absurd] but that it was easier for it to be tuned to reach common consort pitch (ie highest course e' at 75cm) compared to the archlute (say g' at 68cm) since at the consort pitch its treble would be closer to the breaking stress (about one and a half semitone stress steps higher). Of course, this doesn't confirm widespread use of the lesser Fr theorbo for continuo: it may have been M Crev. was puttong in a chaunanistic case for a French instrument since, interestingly, Talbot doesn't list a large French Theorbo but he does and 'English' theorbo tuned in A (NB NOT G) with a string length around 90cm. MH Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many references do we have for the small French theorbo in D? And how many of them actually state the pitch and approximate string length? I haven't studied this area, and can only recall one quotation, so I hope the collective wisdom here will bring me up to speed. Robert de Visee is interesting in this regard. Did he write his solos for the smaller instrument? If we take just one piece (hardly a scientific survey, but it is as far as I have gone so far), La Montfermeil, which appears in three versions, lute, theorbo and in 'partition'. Both the lute and Partition versions are in Am. The theorbo version would be in the same key on the theorbo in D, not A. Now, I know that arrangements might just as easily appear in different keys, so this proves nothing. What other evidence do we have that Visee, Hurel and any others specifically used the theorbo in D for solos? I guess at the back of my mind I think we might be assuming more popularity for the instrument than was the case, but I'll admit I don't know all the facts. So, chapter and verse please on the evidence. Cheers, Rob www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox. --
