----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute list" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fingering question/Pastyme with Good Companye
| How amazing. I never noticed this before. But yes, Francesco's Richafort | De mon triste deplaisir (Ness 121) follows the melody of Pastyme right the | way through from beginning to end. | | Anyone know the words of the Richafort? 'De mon triste deplaisir' seems a | long way away from 'Pastyme with good companye'! oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Take a look at "Ness App 32." Is that the first tombeau? It quotes Francesco's parody ricercar on Richafort's chanson, which borrows its tune from a chanson rustique. <and so forth> A simple setting is in Phalese 1547 and 1563. But there's lots more. Hundreds, perhaps. =====AJN (Boston, Mass.)===== Free Download of the Week This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Ginastera's Estancia Suite, Op. 8a, performed by the Carlos Chavez Symphony Orchestra; Fernando Lozano, conductor. Click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ =================================== | P | | On 29/03/2008, Benjamin Narvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > | > Is "Pastyme with Good Companye" really not by Henry the VIII? Excuse this | > perhaps very silly question from a 17c-iste, but I always assumed it was | > actually by the great man himself - although there could easily be new | > information/finds/theories I am not aware of. I note however that the New | > Grove's still attributes this piece to Henry, although tacitly accepting | > that the attribution could be challenged: | > | > | > "Several of Henry's pieces have connections with continental music, but | > the | > extent to which he borrowed from continental composers has been | > exaggerated. | > The only demonstrable case of borrowing is *Gentil prince de renom*, where | > three of the parts are from Petrucci's *Harmonice musices Odhecaton | > A*(1501), Henry's only contribution being the extremely weak | > contratenor part. | > The discantus of *Helas madam* is based on a continental melody, and *En | > vray amoure* uses a melody found in Comp=E8re and elsewhere, but in both | > cases | > the other parts appear to be by Henry, and reveal the characteristics and | > limitations of his technique. *Adew madam* exists in a slightly improved | > version as *Time to pas*. Apart from faults such as consecutives and | > ill-considered doubling of the 3rd (especially in the contratenor), a | > notable feature of Henry's style is his reliance on passages in parallel | > 6ths. The four-part pieces with French texts probably date from when he | > was | > as young as ten (see Fallows). Their survival is no doubt due more to the | > celebrity of the composer than to their musical merits. However, the same | > cannot be said for some of the English pieces, such as *Pastyme with good | > companye* (the melody of which is found in Richafort's *De mon triste et | > desplaisir* and could have been borrowed by Richafort rather than the | > other | > way round), *Alac alac what shall I do* and *Grene growith the holy*. | > These | > songs, robust or plaintive as the case may be, have a memorable beauty all | > their own." | > Best, | > Benjamin | > | > | > On 29/03/2008, David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > > | > > It is a favorite pastime to say pieces are really not by X, | > > and it is easy because, when you come right down to it, | > > in the renaissance there is no real way to prove anybody wrote anything. | > > People argue whether Shakespeare existed. | > > You can't go exclusively on attribution, because they are often wrong. | > > You can't go on style, because that is always wrong. | > > So basically, you have the contemporaries' word in the absence of | > > contradiction, that is the standard. | > > If it says X on it, it is X unless there is a really good reason not | > > to believe it. | > > But in spite of this, people (myself included, of course) hammer away | > > at the canon--it is an easy target. | > > And sometimes, it is right to do so, but many times people try to | > > take down a famous piece because it is famous. | > > Many people still think Henry VIII wrote Pastime with Good Company. | > > Hey, isn't that in the Ness book? I have to have a look (papers | > > shuffling). | > > | > > There are maybe some marginal pieces to look closely at, but not | > > "Compagna." | > > Or maybe I'm too attached to it. | > > I still can't get over Bist du bei mir. I secretly believe it is | > > Bach, and probably always will. | > > Is it fair that once a gorgeous piece is de-canonized, that we play it | > no | > > more? | > > | > > dt | > > | > > | > > At 09:12 PM 3/28/2008, you wrote: | > > >----- Original Message ----- | > > >From: "Ron Andrico" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > > > | > > >(One issue with Francesco' 'La Compagna' is that the piece may | > > >not really be his after all, coming from a much later source.) | > > > | > > >ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | > > > | > > >Victor Coelho's theory was throughly knocked down at the | > > >Francesco conference in Milan by Chris Wilson. A third source | > > >has surfaced for the "Compagna" ricercar, likewise attributed to | > > >Francesco. The Siena MS has works from throughout the 16th | > > >century, including one of the first works by Francesco to appear | > > >in print. It was printed in 1529 in a corrupt version, and the | > > >correct version appears 50 years later in a retrospective | > > >anthology of Italian lute music, the Siena MS. Nothing in | > > >between. The Siena lute book is perhaps the | > > >single most important Italian source of the century. Its contents | > > >range from music from the Petrucci era through the 1590s, in | > > >readings that are eminently superior to almost every other | > > >source. It has lots of pieces from the early quarter century, | > > >and surely we wouldn't attribute them all to composers from the | > > >end of the century just because there is no earlier extant copy. | > > | > > | > > | > > To get on or off this list see list information at | > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html | > > | > | > | > | > -- | > Benjamin Narvey Luthiste: | > | > http://www.luthiste.com | > | > | > -- | > | | | | -- | Peter Martin | Belle Serre | La Caulie | 81100 Castres | France | tel: 0033 5 63 35 68 46 | e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | web: www.silvius.co.uk | http://absolute81.blogspot.com/ | www.myspace.com/sambuca999 | www.myspace.com/chuckerbutty | | -- |
