Yes, the shape does alter the sound of an instrument, but that is not the topic. It really does not matter what the model is, because the topic is gut trebles, and how high we can go with pitch.
A 70 cm Hieber or Frei baroque lute would have a difficult time keeping on a gut treble at F at a = 415, because of the length (mensur), not the shape. ed At 10:48 PM 4/1/2008 -0300, Bruno Correia wrote: >Martin, > >What about the shape of the lute? Does it alter the sound? I mean for >instance, a Hieber shape versus a Frei. > >Regards. > > >2008/4/1, Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > Rob, > > > > If you want G at 440, 59 cm is the longest mensur you can have, or you > > will > > be upset with premature string breakage. If you want 64 cm, the treble > > should be at F. > > > > Of course, the limit can be pushed much higher for nylon or other > > synthetics. But for gut, in our modern times we seem to want a longer > > mensur at a higher pitch, and this just does not work, as it contradicts > > the properties of gut. > > > > I have a performance coming up this weekend, on 11 course lute, at 415, > > F. The mensur is short, at 67 cm. It works fine, and trebles have been > > lasting for about 2 months. If I used my longer baroque lute at 70 cm, I > > am lucky, very lucky indeed, to last 1 day. > > > > So, if you want a g-lute at 440 with gut, 59 is the upper > > limit. Otherwise, you must go nylon trebles if you want to go longer, or > > be willing to put a new treble on very, very frequently. > > > > My opinion is that in the old renaissance and baroque days, lutes were > > pitched much lower than we are doing today. Why are we trying to push the > > upper limits in terms of pitch? We seem to be so boxed in at 440 vs 415 > > vs > > 392. > > > > For instance, on my 70 cm lute, I have moved it from 415 to a = about > > 400. Now, since I lowered the pitch, a gut treble lasts for months, > > again. And, without regard to string type, in my opinion, lutes sound > > their best when pitched at where they should be. Even with synthetics, if > > you try to go 64 cm at 440, even any synthetic treble, in my opinion, may > > sound very "mousy" & thin (I speak from experience with 64 cm lutes). > > > > In the old times, they did not have a clue or concern about a= 460, 440, > > 415, 392, or 350, or anything else. They had an instrument, and strung it > > up, and pitched it where it should be, depending on the instrument. Why > > does your singer "have to be" at 440? Cannot he/she adapt to the tuning? > > > > These are not my rules.... they are natures rules. The property of gut is > > what it is, and we cannot exceed that. So, if you want gut at 440, you > > must go shorter. > > > > In my opinion, the multi ribs vs wide ribs sounds no differently. What > > does matter is who builds the lute. > > > > Go for it! > > > > > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:38 PM 4/1/2008 +0100, Rob MacKillop wrote: > > >I'm thinking of getting a 7c in G at 440 - is 64cms the longest length > > >possible? I have big hands and find small lutes uncomfortable. I'm > > thinking > > >of it principally for Dowland's chromatic fantasies but also accompanying > > a > > >singer in songs from Dowland's first three books (all for seven-course), > > and > > >need to be at 440. How stable will be the pitch at 440? Gut strings would > > be > > >preferable, but might well opt for nylgut for the first course if it > > keeps > > >breaking. What diameters and tensions would you suggest? > > > > > >Also on relatively small lutes (not baroque) such as a 7c, what > > difference > > >in tone might one expect from a multi-ribbed back as opposed to wide > > ribs? > > > > > >Rob MacKillop > > > > > >-- > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at > > >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > >-- > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG. > > >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.2/1353 - Release Date: > > 3/31/2008 > > >6:21 PM > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.2/1353 - Release Date: 3/31/2008 >6:21 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
