This message did not seem to have been sent to the list, so I will
try again. I appologize, if they both do come through. AH
It seems to me that, in recent messages, several different questions
are being raised about the loading process and dyeing processes at
the same time. One of these can be answered fairly easily:
Q Is the material used for loading strings metal filings, as Damian
has mentioned?
- Well, I suppose it depends what you call metal filings, but I think
it would be better to call it a powder of some form of copper
(perhaps some sort of copper oxide). I don't think it is obtained by
using a file on a piece of copper.
"Modern loaded Bass strings (...) can present different shades of
dark red, brown or blackish colour, but also light yellow - depending
on the oxides or sulfides employed. Also metal powders like metallic-
copper (which is what we use on our loaded strings because it is not
toxic) achieve the same goal: we still have ancient recipes
describing how to produce the finest copper powder (we tried them
quite successfully), like the one by Don Alessio Piemontese ‘I
secreti...’, printed in Venice in 1555: the resulting colour, too,
looks very much like what we see on iconographical sources." MP
We may note that MP's recipe for loading is certainly not the only
way one that could achieve loading, and, if we admit that string
loading did indeed exist, there would have been a number of different
competing recipes, with varying results.
Q Another question is not historic: What difference is there between
a dyeing and a loading process, as this would be defined today? Is
there any overlap in these two types of process that could lead from
one to the other,
- Well, I made a search and I found it very difficult to understand
what I came up with, but it seems that metal oxides are mainly used
as some sort of fixing agent for dyes (mordants) in some modern dyes
See here, for example:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5320647.html
I am no chemist, so most of the document goes completely over my
head. I don't think the metals are the colouring agent, but somehow
help to fix the dye, but I could be quite wrong, and I don't know
whether they effect the density of the material they are applied to.
However, this is the wrong question. It is irrelevant how scientists
would consider the two processes today, or how they would designate
them, perhaps never confusing the two.
The valid question seems to me to be whether, around 1570, colouring
leathers, wool etc, with metal oxides would have been considered as
dyeing, or whether they would have been given a completely different
name, such as "loading".
I found this site which helps me to find an answer which satisfies
me, but possibly not you.
http://www.geocities.com/anne_liese_w/Dyeing/dyemordants.htm
Here, I read,
"Metals are among the earliest of dyes for textiles. Most commonly,
early people from all over the world discovered that certain soils
would impart color to cloth if the cloth were buried in it for some
duration. Extant examples of such a technique can be found in
textiles of the Swiss Lake Dwellers, approx. 3000 BC and modern use
of the practice can be found in Africa, where the natives treat the
cloth with a pattern of tannins and then bury it in iron-rich soil,
producing a black and tan design."
Thus, as I understand it, for thousands of years the problem with
which the "dye trade" (don't take that too literally) must have been
confronted, was how to make these dyes more permanent, how to fix
them on wool, leather, etc. This fixing process would surely lead to
"loading" the material, but the aim was to make the "dye" or colour
fast, not to load the material. Loading would just have been a
secondary effect.
"Several ancient recipes could have been easily employed for
‘loading’ gut (see, for instance, Giovanventura Rossetti’s recipes
for dyeing fabrics, silk and leather in his 'Plichto de l’arte de
tentori che insegna tenger pani, telle, banbasi et sede si per larthe
magiore come per la comune', Venezia, 1568). Some of these describe
how to incorporate cinnabar (red mercury sulphide) or lithargyrum
(yellow lead oxide) into wax, leather, silk, wood, hair, inks &c.:
indeed, only a short step away from gut." MP
Thus this process most probably would have been strongly associated
with the dyeing trade. If the string trade was centred in an area of
Italy where sheep were at one time abundant, perhaps there were very
close links between these various trades (wool, leather-tanning,
dyeing, and also the gut string trade). I think this centre of the
string trade was also at a point from which trade routes spread-out.
It would not be surprising if other trades were assoicated with these
routes, but I admit that I don't know how close the relations might
have been between these different guilds.
I am not suggesting that all dyeing of gut was loading, just that
playing around with dyeing processes could have lead to the discovery
of loading.
Damian is right, I think in considering this socio-economic history
of the gut string trade and their relations with the other guilds, as
being of great importance to our understanding of gut technology.
In the light of what I have said so far, when Mace mentions the
quality of the dark red Pistoys, this is not proof that such strings
were loaded; however, if they were loaded, should we expect Mace to
use this term rather than the term "dyed"? I don't think we should
expect that when modern texts continue to refer to loading of cloth
with oxides, as "dyeing" (see above).
In relation to this general question of how string makers might have
come across the use of metal oxides in relation to leather, a search
with google also brought up the fact that at least some metal oxides
have been used in the tanning process of leather, in particular
chromium salts, but no doubt others have been used, in the tanning
process.
"Chrome Tanning: A tanning process using salts of chromium to make
leathers that are especially supple and suitable for bags, garments,
etc. "
It is possible that similar tanning processes were attempted with
gut. There is no direct relation to loading with a metal oxide, but
any experimentation, dyeing, and tanning, using metal salts, could
have made such a discovery more likely.
Don't let us forget that "dyeing" with metal salts is not the only
way to load gut, and around 1650, a new way of loading gut, the demi-
filé was discovered. This is clearly mentioned in several texts
(Playford, Perrault), and we do have the Mest sample to prove it.
Thus we do know that some string makers must have been looking for
ways of loading strings.
Incidentally, the way loaded strings behave, make me think of the
pendulum, rather than a spring. Some have suggested that Galileo's
study (around 1600) of the behaviour of the pendulum came from
experiments he made with his father weighting lute strings. No I am
not suggesting that Galileo discovered the loaded string, but perhaps
this sort of question was not all that new, just well formulated by
Galileo.
Claude Perrault's description of the demi-filé loaded strings, seems
to be referring to its being similar to the pendulum-like swinging
motion of a bell.
http://www.aquilacorde.com/im16.htm
Again, no proof is implied in what I have just said, only that string-
makers clearly did not ignore such experimentation.
Please do not consider that I think I have successfully answered
these questions. I have written down the questions raised, as I have
understood them, and I have given a number of remarks as replies,
which in no way are attempts to close the issue.
There are other questions that have been raised, such as Jaroslaw's
general questions about whether we should not just get on with
playing music on the strings we have, rather than hunt for new-old
materials, I will try to respond with a few remarks, later.
Anthony
Le 6 juin 08 à 01:37, howard posner a écrit :
On Jun 5, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
I don't think you are mistaken; however, that still would not
involve a chemical change of the gut material itself.
Does dyeing? The question, if I am again unmistaken, was whether a
process used for dyeing might incidentally increase the density/
weight of a string. As far as I can see, adding anything to the
string's innards is going to increase its density, though the
increase may be negligible. Anyone who uses gut strings knows they
get denser from absorbing water when the humidity rises.
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