Dear Arthur, Thank you again very sincerely for spending some time answering my initial query about the mysterious B.M. Yes, I was aware of the fact that Mariagrazia Carlone was Paul Beier's wife. By the way I like what Paul does very much. I will keep the possible Medici connection to myself until Mariagrazia publishes her work and carry on with the usual "Florentine gentleman" stuff, no problem of course. In fact, I was wondering about B.M.'s identity because I am in the process of writing notes for a CD which is due to be released in December. With my colleague and good friend Thierry Meunier we have done a recording of lute duets in August and among them are Galilei's Contrapunti... It was a great experience, especially as the job was done without ANY editing, just live recording ! Honest and very demanding... I will be more than pleased to send you a copy when it is released. (You can see a few photos of the adventure there : http://adueliuti.free.fr/cd.htm if you like).
I am leaving for the week-end, heading to Normandy and the seaside. We have some gorgeous weather right now, much nicer than anything we had in the summer actually. Thank you again for your precious help. Very best wishes. Jean-Marie ======= 20-09-2008 13:08:09 ======= > >> >>Dear Jean-Marie, >> >>You may know that Mariagrazia Carlone is Paul Beier's wife. >> >>I was purposely vague about Mariagrazia's suggestion of an identification >>of "B.M." on Galilei's "Fronimo." That is because, I just had a short >>mention and a reference to a section of her article that presumably >>contains her thinking about why she selected the person. I didn't have >>that part of her article. So I thought I'd let the Lute List wait for her >>article. In it she suggests a Medici, as you guessed. Namely Bernardetto >>Medici. There is a person with that name who was rather famous in the >>15th century. But we would need to know about the namesake who was active >>in the middle of the 16th century. I could not find any references to >>him. >> >>Perhaps it would be best to hold this information from publication until >>after her article appears. It is also possible that she is just making a >>guess. Like Hoppy and Paul were doing.<g> We forget how popular was the >>lute and how many professional players were around back then. I have been >>reading a book on musicians in 16th-century Milan. The author (Christine >>Suzanne Getz--Ashgate Publishers) has a list of musicians who committed >>crimes (murder, assaults, carrying illegal weapons, etc.) and many were >>professional lutenists whose names are unknown today. She has a few new >>information about Pietro Paulo Borrono, who as you probably know was in >>France. >> >>It was nice to hear from you. Best regards, Arthur. >>=====AJN (Boston, Mass.)===== >>This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Chopin's 3 >>Mazurkas, Op. 59, performed by Abdel Rahman El Bacha, pianist. >>To download, click on the CML link here >>http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >> >>My Web Page: Scores >>http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ >> Other Matters: >>http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >>=================================== >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Jean-Marie Poirier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "lute" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 2:01 AM >>Subject: [LUTE] Re: ...help ! >> >> >>| Dear Arthur, >>| >>| Thank you very much for your kind and, as usual, very complete answer to >>my query. Your argumentation comforts my own conclusion. I had taken a >>look at the various sources I had at hand (your introductions to FdM's >>works, to the Siena ms, your Herwart's thesis, H. C. Slim's biography of >>FdM and also Suzanne Court's thesis on Terzi, plus Philipe Canguilhem's >>book on Galillei) and I always came to the same conclusion : B.M. remains >>the mystery man in "Fronimo" ! Hoppy and Paul were quite young at the time >>they recorded this "Duetti Italiani" record (1979) and they may have been >>a bit over enthusiastic about the attribution then... Never mind, their >>record is still very pleasant to listen to ! >>| Well, now, B.M., a Florentine gentleman... Could he possibly be a member >>of the Medici family ? >>| >>| Thank you again, Arthur, and have a very good day, >>| >>| Jean-Marie >>| >>| >>| ======= 18-09-2008 02:48:19 ======= >>| >>| > >>| >----- Original Message ----- >>| >From: "Jean-Marie Poirier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>| >To: "lute" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>| >Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:52 AM >>| >| Dear collective wisdom, >>| >| >>| >| Could anyone on this list give me some precisions about the >>attribution >>| >of some pieces in Galilei's Fronimo (1584 edition), namely 1 ricerecar >>and >>| >2 Contrapunti at the end of the book, to a certain "Bernardino >>Monzino". >>| >The table indeed gives the initials "B.M." for these pieces, but >>nowhere >>| >does a complete name ever appear. How did some people (Paul O'Dette and >>| >Hopkinson Smith among them) reached the equation BM = Bernardino >>Monzino ? >>| >| If you have clues on that mysterious attribution I would be very >>| >grateful for your help. Arthur... ??? ;-) >>| >| >>| >| All the best, >>| >| >>| >| Jean-Marie >>| >| >>| >oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo >>| >Dear Jean-Marie, >>| > >>| >I've been busy, so have had to put off responding to your question. >>| > >>| >The attribution Berdanrdino Monzino for pieces by "B.M." in Galilei's >>| >"Fronimo" pieces comes from the duet LP >>| >that Paul and Hoppy released in 1979. I do not have it, so I do not >>know >>| >the thinking behind the attribution to "Bernardo Monzino", Francesco da >>| >Milano's brother. (Francesco was also known as "Monzino," after his >>| >birthplace, Monza in Milan, and some pieces of his are attributed to >>"F.M" >>| >which >>| >could mean Francesco Monzino.) >>| > >>| >Pieces attributed to a composer with the initials >>| >"B.M." also occur in the Siena Lute Book and in the de Bellis >>Manuscript. >>| >On folio 24 of the Siena manuscript is a piece attributed to "Monzino," >>| >which could refer to Francesco or to his brother. The piece is >>included >>| >in the HUP Francesco edition, as Appendix No. 26. Now a few folios >>| >earlier (folio 19v) is a piece attributed to "B.M." and it _appears_ to >>be >>| >the Monzino piece. For that reason Hoppy and Paul may have concluded >>that >>| >the "M" of B.M. refers to Monzino, hence Bernardo (or Bernardino) >>Monzino. >>| > >>| >But it is only the first few measures of the two pieces that are alike, >>| >and both continue differently after measure 12. In other words, the >>two >>| >works are likely parody ricercars based on the same model. So the >>| >attribution to a person named Monzino is questionable. Thanks to >>Franco >>| >Pavan >>| >we now know a bit about Bernardo's biography. Francesco's family was >>| >associated with the French faction in Milan, and Bernardo traveled with >>| >the Parisian composer Jean Conseil and was in Rome with him, when he >>was >>| >in the Pope's private chapel, but otherwise Bernardo seems to have >>resided >>| >in Milan. He succeeded Francesco as canon at the basilica of San >>Nazaro >>| >in Broglio, when Francesco married. I can find no >>| >reference to Bernardo ever being in Florence, except fleetingly. >>| >Certainly he was not there long enough to be considered a Florentine. >>| > >>| >Galilei described "B.M." as being a "gentiluomo fiorentino," >>| >and that would exclude Bernardo being "B.M." A Florentine gentleman >>might >>| >disguise his name, since the occupation of musician was beneath his >>| >station. >>| > >>| >Mariagrazia Carlone in a forthcoming article in JLSA suggests a member >>of >>| >a prominent Florentine dynastic family as being "B.M., which would >>surely >>| >fit the sobriquet "Florentine Gentleman." Dinko Fabris (iirc) has >>| >suggested another name, >>| >but I cannot find the reference. And one must remember that there were >>| >surely a great many Renaissance gentleman-lutenists with those >>initials. >>| > >>| >But until the evidence is stronger, I would suggest the Fronimo pieces >>be >>| >designated "B.M., Florentine Gentleman." It is always dangerous to >>make >>| >attributions based on shallow, speculative evidence. >>| > >>| >=====AJN (Boston, Mass.)===== >>| >This week's free download from Classical Music Library is >>| >Brahms' Academic Festival Overture in C minor, Op. 80, >>| >performed by the Orchestre National Bordeaux Aquitaine; >>| >Alain Lombard, conductor. >>| > >>| >To download, click on the CML link here >>| >http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >>| > >>| >My Web Page: Scores >>| >http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ >>| > Other Matters: >>| >http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >>| >=================================== >>| > >>| > >>| > >>| > >>| > >>| >To get on or off this list see list information at >>| >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>| >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|>Orange >> > vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virusmail.|>Aucun >> >virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.| >| >|| = == = = = >> >= = = = = = = = = = = = =|| [EMAIL PROTECTED]|http://poirierjm.free.fr| >> >18-09-2008|||| >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. >>Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. >> >> > >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://poirierjm.free.fr >20-09-2008 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Jean-Marie Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20-09-2008
