Anthony,

How strange.......it looks like we were both the same place and the same time not knowing about each other. It's a pity I didn't know you would be there too. Anyway, I have a strong impression from what you are writing, that during our "string talk" you were very much relating to the 17 c.French music. In this case I would be more inclined to agree on the string choice. However I was rather talking about lute string evolution in general. Existing sources confirm that the longer sustain wasn't necessarily avoided as you suggest. On the contrary there were attempts made to prolong sustain as much as their technique allowed for. We can't compare the tone quality and sustain of their open wire wounds with our modern because the wire they used was much thicker then the one we use at present and had different contain. But the overall tendency seems to be quite clear. Secondly I wasn't talking about modern close wire wounds. Thirdly, there will always be some critical opinions. This is how it gets when something new is introduced. Some conservative people would despise new inventions which doesn't signify that the rest would share this feeling. As I can see, you are looking for the homogeneity in lute's sound, however I don't think this is the only way a lute can work. Mace makes very clear distinctions between lute registers and probably absolutely different types of strings were used for those registers as Mimmo were suggesting during the London meeting. I agree with him in this respect. He also showed a gut string treated with tartar oil enormously elastic which looked more like a rope (it could easily be wound in bundle) but obviously it was only a way of preserving gut as I understood from his explanations, but not the end result. Unfortunately historical gut strings made nowadays don't posses these qualities. It is still a mystery what their gut strings were like. Lack of uniformity in string production is not a good explanation so far. It is possible that gut was treated somehow in order to make it very elastic. But back to basses. I am very practical musician as you know, and before I say that something works I have to hear it first. Theoretical explanations aren't good enough for me. In the end of "string meeting" there was a recital of French music(mainly from Vaudry de Saizenay manuscript) played by Claire Antonini. I enjoyed it immensely and it didn't matter that she was playing on the lute strung in nylon and wire wounds. It was just a good performance. On the other hand it was a pity that Benjamin (who was there too I think) didn't play his all gut lute. That would be a great comparison of how stringing influences French music.


All the best

Jaroslaw




    PARA
    However, as Martin tells us, "it is the Burwell lute book, which
    explains that the French removed the low octave from the 11th course
    because the sound of it was too "big" (not necessarily sustained) and
    smothered the other strings."
    Although some do consider this as an explanation after the event, of
    the way some lutenists may have altered their 10c lutes to 11c without
    changing the peg structure, nevertheless, this does not seem to
    indicate a love of deep bass, among the later French Baroque lutenists,
    which might have lead to their preferring demi-filA(c) strings.
    PARA
    Indeed, according to Charles Besnainou (message to the French lute
    list), gimping and wrapping were well known in the embroidery trade for
    several hundred years, and so the technology was at hand, if anyone had
    felt a need for their use; but as Martin points out, after Playford, no
    lute treaty (Burwell or Mace) even mentions these string types.
    PARA
    Ch.B. goes on to write, "more than a century after the invention of
    wirewounds advertized in the English Dancing Master of John Playford
    (Londres, 1651), we find this critical commentary in l'Art du faiseur
    d'instruments (l'EncyclopA(c)die MA(c)thodique, Paris, 1785) :
    A<<  a|les bourdons filA(c)s ont l'inconvA(c)nient de dominer trop sur
    les autres cordes, et d'en faire perdre le son final par la durA(c)e du
    leur, dans les batteries de guitares. A>>
    Thus as late as 1785 wire wounds (most possibly full wirewounds) are
    described as overpowering the other voices and covering them completely
    in their moment of decay; and this quality/defect for French Baroque Dm
    music, remains, in my mind, a real problem with full wirewounds today,
    and which damping does not completely allay.
    PARA
    On the other hand, Claude Perrault (quoted by MP), in  "OUVRES DE
    PYSIQUE", AMSTERDAM 1680, seems to agree with Jaroslav: of wirewounds
    he says, "...c'est par cette mA-ame raison que la maniere que l'on a
    inventA(c)e depuis peu de charger les cordes a boyau, rend leur son
    beaucop plus fort: car le fil de metail trait..." (27).
    [3]http://www.aquilacorde.com/en/researches/our-works/loading-of-gut.ht
    ml?start=3
    PARA
    These contrasting remarks could be two different views of the same bass
    string type (as Jaroslaw rightly says taste can differ), but it is also
    possible that in this 1680 text, CP is talking about demi-filA(c),
    while in the 1785 text, the author is talking about full-wounds.
    Indeed, CP insists on the fact that this improved loudness is achieved
    without any change to the tonal sound of the string, as their
    vibrational structure is not altered, because the stiffness or the
    flexibility of the resonating body remains unchanged.
    [4]http://www.aquilacorde.com/en/researches/our-works/loading-of-gut/39
    .html
    PARA
    Now this does sound like a demi-filA(c), whose open wire leaves the
    flexibility of the gut unimpeded, thus presenting less impedance at the
    bridge than the full-wound, indeed, less than that of a regular thick
    gut bass, since the diameter (as with  Mimmo's loaded strings) can be
    thinner. The free vibratory movement of a loaded string is effectively
    more like that of the pendulum (or the clapper of a bell, as in the
    Perrault quote), rather than that of the tight metal spring as with the
    full-wirewound. The stiffness of the full-wound seriously alters the
    sound quality tending to put a break on the full resonance of the other
    voices, while having good sustain themselves.
    (Perhaps, as this text is dated 1680, we might be sure that wire is not
    drawn thin enough to make full wirewounds; I am sure there is a note on
    this in MP's text, but I was unable to find it).
    PARA
    MP adds that "The author refers to the new overspun bass strings giving
    however the impression he is talking about a new technological strategy
    for loading gut (i.e. the use of metal wire) in place of a more
    traditional one."
    This does seem to be indicated by another example of loading in Charles
    Perrault's text, when he says that "on charge avec de la soudure
    ("solder") le bout des languettes des anches des orgues" (they load the
    organ's metal tongues, or reed, with solder). Thus, ChP is clearly
    considering methods of loading.
    PARA
    Nevertheless, in spite of their qualities, demi-filA(c) do not seem to
    have been generally adopted until about the 1720s, around the same time
    as the swan-neck was introduced, and the fashion for the fan-bracing
    began to spread; all these indicate a new tendency to revel in the
    basses, in keeping with what was to develop into the Galant taste for a
    more underlined bass line to support a differentiated upper voice; but
    these do not seem to have been qualities cherished by the later French
    school, in which so much more was going on in the Mid register.
    PARA
    However, it is probable that the adding of two courses on a rider to
    make 11c into 13c lutes  which really determined the success of the
    demi-filA(c). Indeed above a certain thickness (beyond 11c) the loaded
    strings do tend to become a little dull, while the wire on the
    demi-filA(c) can actually restore a little brightness (pure gut strings
    become even more problematic on a 13c rider lute). It may thus have
    become acceptable to sacrifice a little homogeneity in favour of a
    better tone, which may also have corresponded to a change in taste
    (although the swanneck variant might indicate that some continued to
    dislike demifilA(c), using the extension for pure gut basses; unless
    they were after even more bass and sustain by using it with
    demi-filA(c)).
    PARA
    This would surely have been a break with the late French (and possibly
    early German) Baroque taste, which seems to benefit from as little
    tonal break as possible between the voices, while tending to explore
    the Meanes, yet spurning the frequency extremes.
    We can gather this from the critical remarks in Burwell, about the 12c
    double-headed lute  (I quote Kenneth Sparr):
    "According to the Burwell Lute Tutor the double-headed lute was not
    accepted for long in France and furthermore the author argues against
    the views of 'English' Gaultier, who supposedly held that the length of
    the strings on the double-headed lute produces a longer and bigger
    sound: all the strings ought to have the same length of sound, and the
    sound of a string must make room for the other; for besides the
    confusion that the length of sounds produce, it also causeth a discord
    (since every bass cannot make a concord with every small string). And
    this is the first reason. The second evil effect that condemneth this
    alternation is that the sound of these long strings is not good, and
    that sound is like that of one that sings in the nose. "
    [5]http://www.tabulatura.com/MESTWEB.HTM
    PARA
    This seems in keeping with the concept of "le bon gout franAS:ais"
    developed around this time, which would favour an elegant economy over
    extreme effects, while rejecting an earlier more flamboyant
    "preciosite", which was perhaps still to find favour in the Cavalier
    court of Charles the Ist (under the patronage Henrietta Maria of
    France, sister of Louis XIII).
    These paintings could evoke this difference of approach, even in
    clothing (although here the date difference can account for it):
    [6]http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r14310/Luth/Iconographie/darthmouth.edu.
    wbc/Reyn-Big.jpg
    [7]http://idata.over-blog.com/2/01/43/65/Louvre-10/Louvre-10-0550.JPG
    PARA
    As proof of this conservative tendency, the Carolean masque under the
    influence of Henrietta Maria absorbed a type of  outmoded "ballet de
    cour" known as "ballet A  entrees" that was already judged as decadent
    in France, with its increased emphasis on the visual and spectacular,
    at the expense of the dramatic function.
    [8]http://www.societefrancaiseshakespeare.org/document.php?id=737
    H-M had herself performed in such ballets in France before coming to
    England, and her role in helping perpetuate earlier transitional French
    Baroque forms, is possibly non-negligeable; it was H-M who surrounded
    herself with French musicians such as Jaques Gauthier, who appears in
    the lists of the queen's musicians, as well as in the orchestral list
    for two exravagant masques, as Musician in masques, Triumph of Peace,
    1634; maker of lutes for masques, Britannia Triumphans, 1637, (Journal
    of the American Musicological Society).
    PARA
    If H-M's presence in England may have helped preserve this older 12c
    French style (Gauthier and Mace), her contacts with Holland (where she
    arranged the marriage of her daughter Mary to William of Orange, and
    sold her jewels to finance the Royalists), may have helped its spread
    there; I believe some of her French Catholic musicians fled to Holland
    during the English Civil War (although I can no longer find the
    reference).
    PARA
    I will admit that this is my interpretation from the scraps of
    information that I have been able to glean, and I am of course willing
    to be put right by any serious musical historian.
    Nevertheless, couldn't it be said that two competing schools of French
    Baroque music developed: The French "Dm school", and the English and
    Dutch ("Transitional") French school (even if the two may not have been
    quite so separate as my account suggests);  but the "bon gout
    franAS:ais" shunning the flamboyant extremes may not have completely
    won out.
    PARA
    There are a number of indications of the existence of a difference of
    taste, as between two schools: Mace, who also adopted a form of 12c
    lute (see his lute Dyphone), damned with faint praise the taste for
    Bologna lutes, in this well known scene where he described Jacques
    Gaultier showing him two pittiful cracked examples of Maler's art.
    [9]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/images/07-2005/Mace3.jpg
    He concluded, "I have often seen Lutes of three or four pounds price,
    far more illustrious and taking to the common eye"; but the most
    telling thing, is that the teachers, Gautier and Mace do not use
    Bologna lutes, while their rich amateur students apparently do.
    I wonder why, this passage is widely quoted in support of the Bologna
    "fad", while, I seem to hear Mace and Gautier (both lutenists and lute
    makers, or designers?) chuckling at the expense of their rich student's
    feeble lutes (even if this may have included the king himself).
    PARA
    Thus Jaroslaw is again quite correct, in insisting on variation in
    taste. Some musicians and their audiences clearly went on enjoying the
    less homogenous slightly bass boomy 12c lute (as the Burwell text would
    have it).
    Perhaps, Mace's Dyphone lute actually needed the "tut" Grace (Music's
    Monument p.109), as Jaroslaw mentions, not just for the bass line but
    also for the  other voices, because of the strong sympathetic
    resonances of this "twin" lute.
    [10]http://www.tabulatura.com/mace.jpg
    PARA
    Well of one thing we can be sure, this Diphone lute would not have
    found favour with the author of Burwell, who had already found the 12c
    lute a "faute de goA>>t",
    "The fourth reason [is] that there is no symmetry in proportion in the
    two heads, and a lute so framed is not a lute but a bastard instrument
    between a lute and a theorbo. " which almost both predicts and damns
    Mace's invention in advance (although the dates of both in fact seem to
    differ by only a few years).
    PARA
    Yet, the criticism in Burwell may well tell us more about the notions
    of "bon goA>>t" held by the newer French school than any real defect in
    the 12c lute. I have to admit that I have only heard one such lute
    played live, but it had Charles Besnainou's ultra low impedance spring
    strings on it, and I was listening more to the strings than the
    instrument or the music.
    PARA
    However, Paul Beier told me that his 12c lute is a very elegant design,
    in which each bass string increases in length by a sufficient step, so
    as to keep the same string thickness across the basses. This is more or
    less what Mimmo's loaded Venice achieve by a sufficient step in loading
    to keep the same diameter Venice core.
    PARA
    Both these methods for maintaining the same effective diameter seem to
    have been noted in two Italian 18th century texts (discovered recently
    by Mimmo) concerning the characteristics which determine the resonance
    frequency of a gut string; they both state that apart from length,
    diameter, and tension, there is also the weight, or the gravity, of a
    string.
    I will leave Mimmo to give the details, but this is indeed in keeping
    with the 12c solution, as well as a strong support for the loaded
    string hypothesis.
    PARA
    You ask me, Jaroslaw, whether I would give up my loaded strings if they
    were proved to be non-historic.
    I would say that the problem, for modern interpretations of French
    Baroque Dm lute music with full-wounds, is less the increased sustain
    of these basses, than their impedance to the sustain of the other
    voices resulting in a less singing lute sound; but it is this double
    effect that ensures the smothering of the Meanes and Trebles (as l'Art
    du faiseur d'instruments describes). I don't think this corresponds
    well with the goals of this particular music, as I have tried to point
    out.
    I don't see any more musical solution for a Bologna lute of 70cm or
    below. It is this consideration which makes me so happy with my Venice
    loaded basses with Venice octaves and Meanes on my Warwick Frei: even
    the basses sing, and the other voices also have good sustain. I believe
    this would be in keeping with what we know of the goals of French
    Baroque Dm music, even if it could be proved that they had never
    actually existed.
    PARA
    Now if another bass string was to be produced that was both historic,
    and had even better properties of harmonicity, I might be tempted to
    change from my present loaded. Well, during his string conferences in
    London, Mimmo handed around just such a string: with improved loading,
    an even thinner Venice core, and a heavier but smoother loading.
    When I held it across the fingers as shown on Martin's site:
    [11]http://www.luteshop.co.uk/Gerle1546small.jpg
    it vibrated with superb duration and trueness of shape, AND it would
    bundle exactly as you point out does the string shown there.
    Yes, it did instantly come to my mind that I might "upgrade" at the
    same time as I could lower the diapason from 407 to 392Hz, but the
    singing quality of the present basses is so good, that I don't think I
    have the heart to do so now, but some time...
    PARA
    Now I have also been quite tempted by the type of 12c lute that Paul
    Beier owns (I hope he may soon make a recording). If I was to acquire
    such a lute, I might consider trying Charles' low impedance spring
    strings, or George Stoppani's flexible Lang Lay ropes (of which more
    later), but on a Bologna style lute, I really see no better solution
    than the loaded strings.
    PARA
    As to silk wound silk strings, I agree that the Gansar is a possible
    candidate. According to Ch B Gansar could be associated with the French
    word "ganse" which is usually a cord wound round with silk sometimes
    with a silk ribbon, to form a smooth rope. Such a rope should not show
    high impedance at the bridge, and might have good sustain.
    And do we really know what the Pistoy might have been? but that is a
    different story...
    Regards
    Anthony

    Alexander,
    Well, I think this is just misunderstanding. What I was trying to do is
    to show that verbal descriptions of tone colour are subjective and can
    lead to misinterpretation. I purposly showed 2 extremes: mellow and
    sharp only to diferentiate general tone qualities. I don't think we
    have to do with a myth of sharp lute sound. On the contrary we have to
    do with myth of a sweet , full ,and mellow tone quality mentioned by
    some writers. We can't proove it because we don't have old strings, but
    I am afraid that comparing a lute played in proper (pinky on a bridge
    or behind) manner with the same lute played using modern technique
    (which is neither renaissance nor baroque), and then describing the
    tone characteristic would be very instructive. The only person that I
    know of using this technique is Toyoshiko Satoh. When I listen to his
    recordings (turning the volume up) I can hear that the quality of his
    tone is very different from what we are used to. Inspite of using a
    very low tension strings I can hear in the tone some kind of
    "stiffness" (kind of a sound not very far from a lute stop). And no
    wonder because even if your string is slack its elasticity drops down
    rapidly towards the bridge (giving a little bit more wooden quality to
    it - actually I never mentioned harsh tone).  Nothing wrong with that!
    It's just different. So ,what I was saying is that all the descriptions
    of lute's sound are very subjective.
    Now, I don't know what Mace comment you were thinking off. If you meant
    Playford's advertissement I can't see where he mentions too long
    sustain of the strings. Here is the full citation:
    Advertisment (John Playford "An introduction to the skill of music",
    4th edition London 1664):
    "There is a late invension of strings for the basses of viols and
    violins, or lutes which
    sound much better and louder then the common gut string, either under
    the bow or finger. It
    is small wire twisted or gimped upon a gut string or upon silk. I have
    made trial of
    both,but those upon silk do hold best and give as good a sound. The
    choise of these strings
    are to be sold at Mr. Richard Hunts Instrument-seller at the Lute in
    St. Pauls Alley near Pater noster Row.
    Finis"
    Actually he was praising newly invented wire (gimped) strings which had
    much better sound quality then ordinary gut. As you see it looks like
    they were looking for new string material for because gut wasn't ideal
    and they liked stronger, louder tone with more sustain.
    Silk strings were mentioned by Terzi (1686) as well. As for roped silk
    Dowland's Gansar strings could be a candidate. Also silk strings with
    silver wire - so called Grotesky strings - were well received:
    "Goretsky hath an  invention of lute strings covered with silver wyer,
    or strings which
    make a most admirable musick. Mr Boyle. [...] String of guts done
    about with silver wyer makes a very sweet musick, being of Goretsky's
    invention" ( 1659 ).
    All in all, describtions were and are subjective, but we have our own
    ears to asses if the string is good or not.
    Best
    Jaroslaw
    from Ed Martin
    I have followed this thread with great interest.
    Now that Playford gets into the discussion,  I recently had a great
    experience.  Dan Larson, lute builder and string maker, recently
    acquired a treasure - an original edition of Playford's 1664 book, in
    which the strings are mentioned.  I recently held this beautiful book
    in mint condition, and read through some of it.
    Interestingly enough, Playford does not mention the strings at
    all;  this statement is in the very last folio, where it is an
    advertisement from a merchant who happens to sell strings.   In any
    event, there is not general agreement that the description in this
    advertisement  confirms that wound strings were used.  The statement
    describes wire twisted or gimped upon gut or silk, which does not
    necessarily describe our modern concept of a wound string.
    At 06:23 AM 2/4/2010, alexander wrote:
    O, my apologies, thinking Playford, writing Mace. His complaining
    voice just is so loud in my head... ar
    On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:52:19 +0000
    Martin Shepherd<mar...@luteshop.co.uk>  wrote:
    ???? Mace doesn't mention wound strings at all.  You may be thinking of
    the Burwell lute book, which explains that the French removed the low
    octave from the 11th course because the sound of it was too "big" (not
    necessarily sustained) and smothered the other strings.  I know of no
    lute source which mentions wound strings.
    Best wishes,
    Martin
    ???? Mace doesn't mention wound strings at all.  You may be thinking of
    the Burwell lute book, which explains that the French removed the low
    octave from the 11th course because the sound of it was too "big" (not
    necessarily sustained) and smothered the other strings.  I know of no
    lute source which mentions wound strings.
    Best wishes,
    Martin
    If i may, just on two erroneous assumptions regarding the imagined
    sound quality from "when Historical Correctness was the History
    Itself". One has to do with the idea of the lute basses having rather
    short sustain. Mersenne, who otherwise is an accepted authoritative
    source on the strings (+ more), claimed that bass strings on the lutes
    had sustain of "several seconds". Currently possible only with the
    wound strings. Mace in his comment regarding the "new wire wound
    basses", dismissed their usefulness on the same basis, as, according to
    him, the "currently available basses", on long lutes had too long a
    sustain already. This is one of the points which, as i understand,
    keeps Mimmo Peruffo on searching for ever better answers then the
    current loaded gut offers.
    The second has to do with the universally accepted assumption that
    playing near the bridge with the "thumb out" produces a "sharp tone" ("
    Did
    they like mellow or sharp tone? The RH position of most baroque lute
    players
    on old paintings suggests the later."). This is just an assumption, as
    strange as it may be. Toyohiko Satoh demonstrates this on
    baroque lute. Then there is the case of this famous picture here:
    [12]http://library.csun.edu/igra/bios/graphics/aguado-d.gif
    The picture is of Dionisio Aguado, who according to his contemporaries
    hearing him play duets with Fernando Sor, at times had as deep and
    dignified sound, as Sor did, while playing WITH FINGERNAILS with his
    little finger firmly lodged behind the bridge. The critics, who
    otherwise were not noticed to be ignorant or unprofessional, on
    occasion compared his midrange sound to a cello! Of course then
    alternating with
    a "bright and clear trebles". While we can "only guess" how the long
    lutes
    sounded when played by all those pictured with their hand on the
    bridge, the critique of Aguado's performances is available from
    European news papers and magazines, available in microfilm. If the
    experiment is carried to the logical conclusion, one will notice that
    with the proper strings (and synthetics will not work at all in this
    case, and i am not claiming this theoretically), and allowing the right
    hand to play somewhat in reverse of the logic ( fingers moving slightly
    away from the bridge in plucking, and actually, not quite plucking,
    too, this position can be seen on Aguado's pictures), may be  with the
    right side of the large fingertip, while acquiring a very relaxed
    stance, one will notice that the sound will not remind a harpsichord
    lute stop at all. Of course, one quality that is required from
    trebles in this case, is flexibility and ability to turn under the
    finger (which comes with flexibility). Modern gut strings only so
    slowly develop in this direction. I have a string made by Mimmo Peruffo
    (about 0.6 mm), twisted of two parts, like a rope, and then polished.
    This string can be kept in a "knot", not unlike the "historical"
    distribution methods suggested. Of course, for a string maker to go
    into production of these, a long time will pass, with changing demand
    and tastes. Meanwhile, demanding
    musicians are looking for solution in the lower tension ( Toyohiko
    Satoh ) instead. Et
    cetera... Everything flows somewhere.
    The "Some early records mention
    strings vibrating for up to 10 seconds after being struck: gut strings
    vibrate a second or two at most, but silk vibrations can continue for
    10
    seconds." quote appears to be corrupted in some way, as i was the
    source. The discussion was of a particular design silk strings, with
    the roped silk core wound by twisted silk. There is no evidence of such
    strings in Europe. A second or two - for plain gut basses.
    alexander r.
    On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:36:12 +0000
    JarosAAaw Lipski<jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>  wrote:
    Anthony,
    Thank you for a very interesting link. It looks like guqin players are
    a
    little bit more aware of their past then oud players or at least this
    awarness is making its way.
    There is nothing wrong about being little crazy or nostalgic. We must
    be
    crazy to spend money on such impractical things. However I don't think
    that
    puting a set of gut strings on a lute will transfer a player (or
    listner) to
    the past. It's rather a journey (as you wrote) to the new exotic
    sounds.
    Changing strings makes music different but it doesn't need to have
    pejorative connotations. I don't think that there is anything wrong
    with
    enthusiasm, say, for loaded basses, or any other new type of string
    providing we realize what is the reason to use them. Do we want to be
    archeologists or musicians? If archeologists, one has to buy what
    people say
    is HIP. If musicians, one buys what suits his musical taste best.
    Obviously
    we can be both, but then we will be torn and tormented when new data
    arrives. I wouldn't fancy throwing away loaded basses if someone
    announced
    one day that he has a data that contradicts existence of those strings
    in
    past. I would only buy them if I liked their tone. At least this is my
    attitude. I am the musician in the first place.
    So What is the reason for using gut?
    1/Economical
    Definitely not economical. However in past it could've been so. It's
    difficult to compare prices from 18th century to the prices of modern
    gut,
    but definitely it must have been cheaper a lot. Normaly it was bought
    in
    bundles (as Mace and others write). If the production was really
    massive it
    could be the cheapest way to go then.
    2/Historical
    This is a good argument for those of us that love history. The only
    problem
    is that probably the guts we can produce at the moment aren't the same
    that
    were produced then.
    Thiner strings were very supple - characteristique quite different from
    modern HT guts.This is the citation from Martin Sheperd's site (I hope
    you
    don't mind Martin? [13]http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringshistory.htm ):
    "Packaging: strings were made in lengths ("knots") at least twice as
    long as
    was needed on the instrument. "Double knots" are presumably twice as
    long.
    They are then "made up" into "bundles", more knots to a bundle for thin
    strings than for thicker ones. The whole issue of packaging has been
    largely
    ignored by modern writers but it can give vital clues as to the nature
    of
    the strings: all the descriptions of "knots", "bundles" and how to
    extract a
    string from them suggest characteristics very different from those of
    modern
    gut strings, which must be carefully coiled because bending round sharp
    corners ruins them. The picture of testing for trueness in Gerle's book
    of
    1546 is one of several depictions which shows what a "knot" was like"
    Do have a look at the picture of such a bundle on Martin's site .
    The fact very well known but notoriously overlooked or ignored
    (intentionaly?) by HIP players. Then the argument that original guts
    were
    better because they were stiff and this is why it was easy to play
    ornaments
    is not valid any more from historical point of view.
    Then comes the issue of basses. We already discussed it many times so I
    won't be repeating my standpoint, however I'd like to draw your
    attention to
    another aspect of the bass issue. One of the main arguments of gut bass
    advocates is that the string doesn't ring long therefore the balance of
    the
    instrument is much better. Now we enter another teritory so I'll make
    another point here.
    3/Tonal
    Tonal characteristic is something that each one of us would describe
    differently. Our descriptions of how instrument in general or the
    string
    itself sounds is in a way a projection of our likings. For example a
    person
    that likes low frequences would describe an instrument set with
    wirewounds
    as sonorous. The tone of the very same instrument would be described as
    boomy by another person who prefers higher frequencies. This is just to
    say
    it isn't objective.
    We can hear it very clearly in some HIP interpretations. Some players
    are so
    afraid of boomy and unclear bass line that they develope quite
    complicated
    technique of dumping bass strings. Whether it is historical or not to
    play
    small phrases this way, can be polemicized, however playing the whole
    bass
    line non legato seems to be dictated rather by personal taste. Although
    Mace
    suggests that it actually was in use (Music's Monument p.109) however
    he
    describes it as a grace called "tut". Grace, not the whole technique of
    playing bass line.
    Then we have to ask what were the likings of people in 17 or 18
    century. Did
    they like mellow or sharp tone? The RH position of most baroque lute
    players
    on old paintings suggests the later. What were the tonal qualities of
    other
    plucked instruments they invented? Harpsichords, lute-harpsichords
    etc....I
    wouldn't say they have gentle, very subtle and sweet sound. I would
    describe
    them rather as sonorous with comparatively strong bass register.
    I am not advocating here use of grand piano strings for lute, but I am
    trying to say that describing tone quality can be very subjective.
    We know that probably silk strings were used on lutes. Acording to the
    author of the article on guqin silk strings: "Some early records
    mention
    strings vibrating for up to 10 seconds after being struck: gut strings
    vibrate a second or two at most, but silk vibrations can continue for
    10
    seconds." So the argument that gut was highly valued for its short time
    of
    vibration seems to be fallacious. Morover, metal strings were used in
    Italy
    on theorbos with even longer vibrating time.
    It can't be excluded that gut was most commonly used because it was
    cheapest, less problematic than silk and easiest to obtain but not
    necessarily for its tonal unsurpassable values.
    4/Subtle sound qualities
    This probably should be discussed together with tonal qualities,however
    some
    people refer to it as a special, unique characteristic of gut. Again
    it's
    very subjective, however I have an impression that succesful
    performance
    depends more on imagination and sensitivity of a musician not the
    string
    material used. There is nothing subtle in gut. We make it subtle by
    playing
    it in imaginative and subtle way.
    5/ sensory sensations
    Yes, this is probably the most valuable virtue of gut. Gut feels good,
    gut
    plays good under our fingers. It's not as slippery as nylon.
    6/ecological
    Good way to go for those who like everything natural. It is a nice
    feeling
    that the whole instrument is 100% natural.
    To sum up I believe there are some important considerations in favor of
    gut
    use, however I wouldn't say that this is the only material suitable for
    lute
    strings. Unless we find with certaintenty how gut was made in past we
    can't
    pretend that the main reason for using it is to recreate an old,
    traditional
    way of playing. But even then, there is a place for new string
    materials
    which have some qualities that gut doesn't. Plastic sounds more
    plastic,
    that's obvious, but there are other adventages of using plastic.
    I like history, nature and subtle things, but on the other hand we
    can't
    deny we are modern. So instead of concentrating on beeing 100% HIP I
    prefer
    to concentrate on music. I use gut but for different reasons.
    Anyway,thank you for interesting thoughts. It was nice to talk to you
    again
    Anthony.
    Best wishes
    Jaroslaw
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    --

References

    1. http://tinyurl.com/ykm8wms
    2. http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00285HBXO/ref=dm_dp_trk17
    3. 
http://www.aquilacorde.com/en/researches/our-works/loading-of-gut.html?start=3
    4. http://www.aquilacorde.com/en/researches/our-works/loading-of-gut/39.html
    5. http://www.tabulatura.com/MESTWEB.HTM
    6. 
http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r14310/Luth/Iconographie/darthmouth.edu.wbc/Reyn-Big.jpg
    7. http://idata.over-blog.com/2/01/43/65/Louvre-10/Louvre-10-0550.JPG
    8. http://www.societefrancaiseshakespeare.org/document.php?id=737
    9. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/images/07-2005/Mace3.jpg
   10. http://www.tabulatura.com/mace.jpg
   11. http://www.luteshop.co.uk/Gerle1546small.jpg
   12. http://library.csun.edu/igra/bios/graphics/aguado-d.gif
   13. http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringshistory.htm
   14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html





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