Yes. Bob was always very kind and also let me have a copy of this
anonymous sinfonia and the two concertinos for leuto 2 violini e
basso (lute part written in octave transposing treble clef for solo
passages and bass clef for BC). Incidentally I don't think the sinfonia
was written for mandora but for the Old tuined G leuto.
Alas it is now very difficult to obtain copies or even access to the
collection - I.m sure Bob wouldn't have approved.
MH
--- On Tue, 4/1/11, A. J. Ness <arthurjn...@verizon.net> wrote:
From: A. J. Ness <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 - which instrument?
To: "Lute Dmth" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "Martyn Hodgson"
<hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Tuesday, 4 January, 2011, 20:56
See below.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson"
<[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Lute Dmth" <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:39 AM
Subject: [LUTE] RV93 - which instrument?
<<<SNIP>>>
> It is much more likely that the instrument required is the 18th
> century Italian 'leuto' (sometimes but by no means always in its
> arcileuto configuration) tuned, I and others have suggested, like
the
> old lute in a nominal G (but sometimes A); an E tuning has also
been
> proposed - tho' this is most unlikely in view of the string length
of
> these instruments. The general size of these instruments can be
deduced
> from contemporary iconography and there are good early/mid 18th
century
> Italian paintings showing lutes being played (often just 7 course
> instruments - perhaps even old lutes?) suggesting string lengths
close
> to old G lutes (ie generally low/mid 60s cm). A number of these
> instruments survive in modern collections and often in a pristine
state
> by makers such as Radice. As first suggested by Bob Spencer these
> instruments would have played from staff notation (like Dalla
Casa):
> often using the octave transposing G2 clef but also, I suspect,
also
> using the normal bass clef for basso continuo.
>
> Whether Vivaldi was concerned about these pieces being played on a
> 'baroque' ie Dm lute rather than an instrument in the old tuning I
> think we will never truly know (since he didn't expect modern
> organologists to delve into the question) but what can be said is
the
> the one lute work which he did indisputedly conceive for the Dm
lute
> (the double concerto with viola d'amore) RV 540 was first performed
in
> 1740 and its fits well on the instrument - much more so than the
> earlier 'leuto' works. We also know that the Dm lute made
surprisingly
> very little impression in 18th century Italy.
>
> In short, if in doubt play these works on a 7 course lute (tuned in
> nominal G or A) but use overwound on the lowest courses, unlike the
> wholly gut strings of earlier generations. Also, I suspect, they
> employed a significantly higher string tension than earlier
generations
> (the extant 18th century leuto seem more robust than earlier lutes;
use
> of nails to pluck) but then, of course, you risk damaging the
> instrument.............. Alternatively, if you really want to hear
what
> contemporary audiences expected, get a special instrument made.
>
> MH
================================
Bob Spencer may have been thinking about the _Sinfonia `a Solo di
Archiliuto_
(lute with basso continuo), transcribed here from a score formerly in
Bob's library.
[3]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/sinfonia.ht
ml
He purchased it in 1956 (ex-Harrach?), along with two concertinos (one
with "organo" continuo--see below) for the same instrument, and the
Lauffensteiner suite published by the Lute Society. The instrument
sounds an octave lower in the treble clef, and at pitch in the bass
clef. The works are thought to be Bohemian in provenance.
(If you download the Sinfonia from my site, use the *.PDF files at the
bottom of the page--they reproduce the notation clearly.) It shouldn't
be difficult to
determine the tuning.
Beware of the Malipiero editions for Ricordi (the edition you are
most likely to encounter in a music library) because he often does not
indicate the full lute part. Almost always Vivaldi has the lute
playing
"col basso" in the Tutti. That is, the lute plays basso continuo.
Malipiero
gives rests, usually without explanbation! Peter Segal (Production
d'Oz) gets it right in his excellent
editions of the Vivaldi pieces (score and parts), but in a bow to
guitarists
uses the treble clef (Vivaldi's manuscripts use bass clef when the lute
plays basso continuo).
I notice in at least one of the Vivaldi score (lute, mandolin) the
strings
are instructed to use mutes ("con sordino"). There are other lute
concertos
which likewise call for muted strings. One of the Vivaldi concertos
calls
for "organo" continuo, and that is what Paul O'Dette uses in that early
CD. I don't hear him play
continuo in the tuttis, and he seems to follow Malipiero's faulty score
in
that regard.
AJN
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/sinfonia.html
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
