Dear Martyn I am grateful to Charles Besnainou (who is a French research person on strings of all sorts) for helping me to understand this situation a little better. Charles learnt gut string making from Sofracob, and he had an excellent relation with its director M. Lenoble. He tells me that far from closing because he wasn't making enough profit, M. Lenoble actually returned to direct the company after retirement just to try to steer it out of debt. He was proud to have managed to close without owing anything. Although he was very sad to have closed a company that once had 150 workers. % Charles also tells me that the problem would be exactly the same for Sofracob at the moment if they still existed. % Perhaps, one thing he told me clarifies how it could be that these rulings for BSE could have been extended to musical string making. In fact, Sofracob also made medical catgut, and of course this would be directly in contact with the inside of the body (whereas musical gut usually remains outside, except possibly if you were to lick it before passing it through the bridge). I am not certain about that, but it seems logically possible, that the ruling was for both surgical and musical strings treated together. The ruling was against Prions, and of course sheep gut can also contain Prions (from Scrapes), so I assume it applied to all gut types. %
I appologise for not being able to give legal interpretations of the BSE rulings. I did read some of them, but am no legal eagle. I am myself struggling to understand the issues. % I don't think it would be advisable to make any specific statements about which string makers might be more in danger. This would only plunge them into more difficulty (hopefully, none ar at risk right now). % I am certainly not in favour of taking risks with BSE, but, as I said above, I can only understand the exaggerated application of these rules to string making by its historical association with surgical gut. I believe there is no more surgical gut in the EU, so it would seem time to loosen these applications. However, if you read the petition, it is suggested that health specialists be involved with altering the application of these rules. Best regards Anthony ________________________________ De : Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> À : "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Anthony Hind <agno3ph...@yahoo.com> Envoyé le : Lundi 21 Novembre 2011 12h55 Objet : [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. Thank you for this Anthony, I am not particularly sceptical but, like some others, find a certain lack of clarity in the position. Your description of how and why Sofracob went out of business is that they 'could no longer source sufficient raw gut' not that they were unable to source raw gut at all. The implication from your other recent mailings is that this was because the EU regulations had reduced if not entirely eliminated their ability to source raw gut. But I had earlier believed that Sofracob's decision was purely commercial - on the grounds of reduced profit margins - perhaps by having to pay more to 'source sufficient raw gut'. Maybe the same considerations apply to Aquila? Regarding BSE, perhaps there is a case to only source safely produced gut (if not for the players then for the workers who handle the product). Certainly abattoirs in the UK have very strict regulations which might have slightly increased wholesale meat costs but we still get offal and the like - even on supermarket shelves! I think the concern may be in becoming too over excited about an issue which may be a non-problem. Has anyone approached Toro or Keurschner to find out if they anticipate supply difficulties? regards Martyn --- On Mon, 21/11/11, Anthony Hind <agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Anthony Hind <agno3ph...@yahoo.com> Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. To: "Orphenica" <wer...@orphenica.de>, "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Monday, 21 November, 2011, 10:56 Dear Orphenica and other sceptical members of this list. I am afraid I am unable to give you detailed legal interpretations of the EU BSE regulations, but I will try to answer a few of your questions, and set out why I personally signed the petition. reasons which seem to have brought a number of luthenists on the French lute list (including myself) to sign this petition. % Firstly this problem has not just been localised to Italy, even if the last company to stop making gut, Aquila, is located there. Prior to this in 2010, Sofracob (a French company), had to close their doors, for exactly the same set of reasons. % On the French list, a research string maker who was a friend of the people working at Sofracob, confirms that Sofracob, the only French string maker, went out of business after "37 years of service" due to EU BSE regulations, as they could no longer source sufficient raw gut. This French researcher tells us that the rules are still in place, here, but ignored when the lobby group is strong enough, as in the case of the chacuterie lobby group. This in itself, it seems to me, is a sufficient reason to sign the petition. Only "lobbying" may be effective. % We can't save Sofracob, and we may not be able to change Aquila's decision, but there are two other large companies in the EU, Toro, in Italy, and Keurschner in your own country (Germany) who we may be able to save; and we must bear in mind that most raw gut used even by US string makers, comes from the EU, so it is also possibly endangered (There are a few very small companies that have their own supply of sheep gut, and one sourcing from Moroco, but none of these are large enough to meet demands). % Searching the net for information, I see that Mimmo Peruffo in 2006 did give a warning about the immenent danger from BSE regulation in an interview with the Guardian (dated Sunday 21 May 2006). [1][1]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH (Please note that the Argintinian company mentioned in this text, went bancrupt). % Peruffo hoped to ask "for an exemption to the ban for a 'historically significant' craft: 'Without strings, no one could play Bach or Handel." % Unfortunately, nothing followed from this, and Sofracob closed in February 2010 exactly for this same reason. % As members of this list seem sceptical, I think I should copy the announcement from Sofracob: FR) SOFRACOB (SociA(c)tA(c) FranAS:aise de Corde en Boyaux) to close its doors after 37 years of service Contributed by Admin on Jan 09, 2010 % "Dear Customer, % Ever since the onset of Mad Cow Disease (BSE), we have done our best to maintain our business activity. Unfortunately, however, despite all our efforts, we must inform you that SOFRACOB will terminate its business at the end of February 2010. We recommend that you purchase some inventory before our closing, but we must receive your order no later than late January. We have always done our utmost to provide you with the best in customer satisfaction, and we are sorry to be obliged to end our collaboration. Pending your eventual orders for the end of January 2010, you can be certain that this situation has left us regretful that we will no longer be able to serve you. % Sincerely Yours, Best regards. Ph. LENOBLE and VIRGINIE" % This text alone would make me sign the petition. % It may be that people on the US List feel somehow that this (coming after the crysis of the Euro) is just another EU problem (certainly many on the French list have signed the petition); but I think this would be rather looking at the situation with blinkers. Mimmo's warning in 2006 was ignored, and Sofracob closed not long after. Do we want to wait for the next "victim"? % Regards Anthony % ________________________________ De : Orphenica <[2][2]wer...@orphenica.de> AEUR : "[3][3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> EnvoyA(c) le : Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 23h17 Objet : [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. Hi collective lute wisdom, can somebody sum up the situation on gut strings for me. As I am a heavy gut player, I'd like to understand what is going on in this field. As far as I understood it, the production and import of gut strings (esp. beef gut) used to be forbidden in the EU, due to cases of BSE some years ago. This jurisdiction has been withdrawn and production is allowed again, with the exception of Italy which missed to cancel the abolition from the national Italian body of law. Aquila stopped the production of gut strings due to this national Italian jurisdiction AND/OR because it could not get raw material of sufficient quality, because of import restrictions. As I read from the post here on the lists, production in other countries do not seem to be problematic If this is the case, petitions addressed to the EU are quite useless, petitions should be adressed to the Italian government. I am inclined to sign any petition that keeps the production of gut strings going, but I am not quite sure, WHAT is the real nature of the problem. It would be nice if somebody kindly could sum up the situation for me. Thanks we Am 19.11.11 16:53, schrieb William Samson: > Hi Garry, > Talking of "lip smacking good", there was stuff in Nelson's navy called > 'portable soup' that was made by boiling a vat of soup until it > attained the consistency of thick hide glue, then letting it cool. It > was broken into slabs that could be re-constituted by the addition of > hot water. I wouldn't be surprised if it was indistinguishable from > hide glue. On the other hand, the sailors enjoyed it - but then I > suppose it was nice compared to weevilly biscuits and salt beef that > had circled the globe several times. Also they wouldn't have lived > long enough for the prions to take effect. > Bill > From: Garry Warber<[5][5]garrywar...@hughes.net> > To: [6][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 13:09 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. > William, > Hey, welcome to the mindset in the states... We are not known as > "yanks" for nothing. :-) You are right, "loose lips sink ships", more > or less. Of course, there is that prions not being harmed by cooking > thing. But as far as I know, only one guy here thinks hide glue is > "lip-smacking good!" :-)+LOL... > Garry > -----Original Message----- From: William Samson > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:18 AM > To: [1][7][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: William Samson<[2][8][8]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> > To: Garry Warber<[3][9][9]garrywar...@hughes.net> > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 8:12 > Subject: Re: [LUTE] gut string, etc. > >>Is hide glue now also banned in the EU? > SHHH!!!! I hope none of these Eurocrats is reading this list!!! > This'll give them the opportunity to appoint dozens more overpaid > officials who get bonuses for imposing bans and senseless rules and > regulations. Remember the 'straight banana' fiasco? Now they are > denying they ever tried to ban curved ones . . . > Still, the great thing about hide glue is that you can make your own > by > boiling up roadkill in a secret location where the thought police > can't > find you. > Bill > PS Orwell's '1984' was a long time coming, but it's with us now - > metrication, never ending wars, three political blocs (take your > pick), > 'Newspeak', CCTV cameras everywhere, political correctness . . . > PPS Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean . . . AARRRGGGHHH!!!! > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4][10][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:[11][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 2. mailto:[12][12]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 3. mailto:[13][13]garrywar...@hughes.net > 4. [14][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- References 1. [15]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 2. mailto:[16]wer...@orphenica.de 3. mailto:[17]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:[18]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:[19]garrywar...@hughes.net 6. mailto:[20]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:[21]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:[22]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 9. mailto:[23]garrywar...@hughes.net 10. [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. mailto:[25]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. mailto:[26]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 13. mailto:[27]garrywar...@hughes.net 14. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wer...@orphenica.de 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 6. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 9. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 13. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 16. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wer...@orphenica.de 17. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 18. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 19. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 20. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 21. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 22. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 23. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 25. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 26. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 27. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
