'Intestine-twiddlers' forsooth, Sirrah?!?!?! More than one way to skin (gut?) a cat, eh? I love this one - The most extreme tempering of frets I've ever seen. 8O [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_jpR04Hfo If you look closely he's using nails. Multiple heresies going on here, though nails are supposed to be OK with theorboes. Must say I'm a huge admirer of all his stuff - though I've no plans to go over to the dark side myself (yet). Bill From: Garry Warber <garrywar...@hughes.net> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011, 9:14 Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition, period colons etc. Perhaps if you intestine-twiddlers would give a listen to this you may amend your aberrant ways: [2]http://youtube.com/watch?v=YxVzNZVflL8 I hope I have the link right... :-) Garry -----Original Message----- From: A.J. Padilla MD Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 8:07 PM To: 'corvo di bassetto' ; 'Lute List' Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition, period colons etc. I had considered suggesting we make strings from politician guts instead, but alas, I assume that in Europe they're as gutless as they are here in the US. AJP -----Original Message----- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of corvo di bassetto Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:53 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition, period colons etc. Dear luters in the authentic gutter, I wrote to Nick Baldock (Kathedrale) some days ago asking him for a statement; no reply so far (maybe he strangled himself in despair with his last gut; or maybe he fell victim to the prions). Yet my butcher told me, sausages in beef gut are still available (in Germany). These sausages figure prominently in the morbid food rites of the local savages. They are so unbelievably vile that mad cow disease will actually relieve the suffering of those who ate them, hence the exception to the EU law. I changed to silk strings for the upper registers years ago and still play many of Baldock's large intestines now 8aEUR"10 years old on lutes and viols; we once joked about the future in which luters shunning anachronisms will have to resort to sausage casings for stringsaEUR| Best regards danyel Am 21.11.2011 um 18:55 schrieb Anthony Hind: > Dear Martyn > I am grateful to Charles Besnainou (who is a French research person on strings of all sorts) for helping me to understand this situation a little better. > Charles learnt gut string making from Sofracob, and he had an excellent relation with its director M. Lenoble. > He tells me that far from closing because he wasn't making enough profit, M. Lenoble actually returned to direct the company after retirement just to try to steer it out of debt. He was proud to have managed to close without owing anything. Although he was very sad to have closed a company that once had 150 workers. > % > Charles also tells me that the problem would be exactly the same for Sofracob at the moment if they still existed. > % > Perhaps, one thing he told me clarifies how it could be that these rulings for BSE could have been extended to musical string making. > In fact, Sofracob also made medical catgut, and of course this would be directly in contact with the inside of the body (whereas musical gut usually remains outside, except possibly if you were to lick it before passing it through the bridge). > I am not certain about that, but it seems logically possible, that the ruling was for both surgical and musical strings treated together. The ruling was against Prions, and of course sheep gut can also contain Prions (from Scrapes), so I assume it applied to all gut types. > % > > I appologise for not being able to give legal interpretations of the BSE rulings. I did read some of them, but am no legal eagle. > I am myself struggling to understand the issues. > % > I don't think it would be advisable to make any specific statements about which string makers might be more in danger. > This would only plunge them into more difficulty (hopefully, none ar at risk right now). > > % > I am certainly not in favour of taking risks with BSE, but, as I said above, I can only understand the exaggerated application of these rules to string making by its historical association with surgical gut. I believe there is no more surgical gut in the EU, so it would seem time to loosen these applications. > However, if you read the petition, it is suggested that health specialists be involved with altering the application of these rules. > Best regards > Anthony > > > > ________________________________ > De : Martyn Hodgson <[5]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> AEUR : > "[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Anthony Hind > <[8]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> EnvoyA(c) le : Lundi 21 Novembre 2011 12h55 Objet > : [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. > > > Thank you for this Anthony, > > I am not particularly sceptical but, like some others, find a certain > lack of clarity in the position. > > Your description of how and why Sofracob went out of business is that > they 'could no longer source sufficient raw gut' not that they were > unable to source raw gut at all. The implication from your other recent > mailings is that this was because the EU regulations had reduced if not > entirely eliminated their ability to source raw gut. But I had earlier > believed that Sofracob's decision was purely commercial - on the > grounds of reduced profit margins - perhaps by having to pay more > to > > 'source sufficient raw gut'. Maybe the same considerations apply to > Aquila? > > > Regarding BSE, perhaps there is a case to only source safely produced > gut (if not for the players then for the workers who handle the > product). Certainly abattoirs in the UK have very strict regulations > which might have slightly increased wholesale meat costs but we still > get offal and the like - even on supermarket shelves! > > I think the concern may be in becoming too over excited about an issue > which may be a non-problem. Has anyone approached Toro or > Keurschner to find out if they anticipate supply difficulties? > > regards > > Martyn > > > --- On Mon, 21/11/11, Anthony Hind <[9]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Anthony Hind <[10]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. > To: "Orphenica" <[11]wer...@orphenica.de>, "[12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > <[13]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Monday, 21 November, 2011, 10:56 > > Dear Orphenica and other sceptical members of this list. > I am afraid I am unable to give you detailed legal > interpretations of the EU BSE regulations, but I will try to > answer > a > few of your questions, and set out why I personally signed the > > petition. reasons which seem to have brought a number of luthenists > on > the French lute list (including myself) to sign this petition. > % > Firstly this problem has not just been localised to Italy, even if > the > last company to stop making gut, Aquila, is located there. > Prior to this in 2010, Sofracob (a French company), had to close > their > doors, for exactly the same set of reasons. > % > On the French list, a research string maker who was a friend of the > people working at Sofracob, confirms that Sofracob, the only French > string maker, went out of business after "37 years of service" due > to > EU BSE regulations, as they could no longer source sufficient > raw > gut. > This French researcher tells us that the rules are still in place, > here, but ignored when the lobby group is strong enough, as in the > case > of the chacuterie lobby group. This in itself, it seems to me, is a > sufficient reason to sign the petition. Only "lobbying" may be > effective. > % > We can't save Sofracob, and we may not be able to change Aquila's > decision, but there are two other large companies in the EU, Toro, > in > Italy, and Keurschner in your own country (Germany) who we may be > able > to save; and we must bear in mind that most raw gut used even by US > string makers, comes from the EU, so it is also possibly > endangered > > (There are a few very small companies that have their own supply of > sheep gut, and one sourcing from Moroco, but none of these are large > enough to meet demands). > % > Searching the net for information, I see that Mimmo Peruffo in 2006 > did > give a warning about the immenent danger from BSE regulation in an > interview with the Guardian (dated Sunday 21 May 2006). > [1][1][14]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH > (Please note that the Argintinian company mentioned in this text, > went > bancrupt). > % > Peruffo hoped to ask "for an exemption to the ban for a > 'historically > significant' craft: 'Without strings, no one could play Bach or > Handel." > % > Unfortunately, nothing followed from this, and Sofracob closed in > February 2010 exactly for this same reason. > % > As members of this list seem sceptical, I think I should copy the > announcement from Sofracob: > FR) SOFRACOB (SociA(c)tA(c) FranAS:aise de Corde en Boyaux) to close > its doors after 37 years of service > Contributed by Admin on Jan 09, 2010 > % > "Dear Customer, > % > Ever since the onset of Mad Cow Disease (BSE), we have done our best > to > maintain our business > activity. Unfortunately, however, despite all > our > efforts, we must inform you that SOFRACOB will terminate its > business > at the end of February 2010. We recommend that you purchase some > inventory before our closing, but we must receive your order no > later > than late January. We have always done our utmost to provide you > with > the best in customer satisfaction, and we are sorry to be obliged to > end our collaboration. Pending your eventual orders for the end of > January 2010, you can be certain that this situation has left us > regretful that we will no longer be able to serve you. > % > Sincerely Yours, > Best regards. > Ph. LENOBLE and > VIRGINIE" > % > This text alone would make me sign the petition. > % > It may be that people on the US List feel somehow that this (coming > after the crysis of the Euro) is just another EU problem (certainly > many on the French list have signed the petition); but I think this > would be rather looking at the situation with blinkers. Mimmo's > warning > in 2006 was ignored, and Sofracob closed not long after. Do we want > to > wait for the next "victim"? > % > Regards > Anthony > % > ________________________________ > De : Orphenica <[2][2][15]wer...@orphenica.de> > AEUR : "[3][3][16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4][4][17]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > EnvoyA(c) le : Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 23h17 > Objet : [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. > Hi collective lute wisdom, > can somebody sum up the situation on gut strings for me. As I am a > heavy gut player, I'd like to > understand what is going on in this field. > As far as I understood it, the production and import of gut strings > (esp. beef gut) used to be forbidden in the EU, > due to cases of BSE some years ago. This jurisdiction has been > withdrawn and production is allowed again, with the exception of > Italy > which missed to cancel the abolition from the national Italian body > of > law. > Aquila stopped the production of gut > strings due to this national Italian jurisdiction AND/OR because it > could not get raw material of sufficient quality, because of import > restrictions. > As I read from the post here on the lists, production in other > countries do not seem to be problematic > If this is the case, petitions addressed to the EU are quite > useless, > petitions should be adressed to the Italian government. I am > inclined > to sign any petition that keeps the production of gut strings > going, > but I am not > quite sure, WHAT is the real nature of the problem. > It would be nice if somebody kindly could sum up the situation for > me. > Thanks > we > Am 19.11.11 16:53, schrieb William Samson: > > Hi Garry, > > Talking of "lip smacking good", there was stuff in Nelson's > navy > called > > 'portable soup' that was made by boiling a vat of soup until > it > > attained the consistency of > thick hide glue, then letting it cool. It > > was broken into slabs that could be re-constituted by the > addition > of > > hot water. I wouldn't be surprised if it was > indistinguishable > from > > hide glue. On the other hand, the sailors enjoyed it - but > then > I > > suppose it was nice compared to weevilly biscuits and salt > beef > that > > had circled the globe several times. Also they wouldn't have > lived > > long enough for the prions to take effect. > > Bill > > From: Garry Warber<[5][5][18]garrywar...@hughes.net> > >> To: [6][6][19]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, > 13:09 > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. > > William, > > Hey, welcome to the mindset in the states... We are not known > as > > "yanks" for nothing. :-) You are right, "loose lips sink > ships", > more > > or less. Of course, there is that prions not being harmed by > cooking > > thing. But as far as I know, only one guy here thinks hide > glue > > is > > > "lip-smacking good!" :-)+LOL... > > Garry > > -----Original Message----- From: William Samson > > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:18 AM > > To: [1][7][7][20]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > > > From: William Samson<[2][8][8][21]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> > > To: Garry Warber<[3][9][9][22]garrywar...@hughes.net> > > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 8:12 > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] gut string, etc. > > >>Is hide glue now also banned in the EU? > > SHHH!!!! I hope none of these Eurocrats is reading this > list!!! > > This'll give them the opportunity to appoint dozens more > overpaid > > officials who get bonuses for imposing bans and senseless > rules > and > > regulations. Remember the 'straight banana' fiasco? Now > > they > are > >> denying they ever > tried to ban curved ones . . . > > Still, the great thing about hide glue is that you can make > your own > > by > > boiling up roadkill in a secret location where the thought > police > > can't > > find you. > > Bill > > PS Orwell's '1984' was a long time coming, but it's with us > now - > > metrication, never ending wars, three political blocs (take > your > > pick), > > > 'Newspeak', CCTV cameras everywhere, political correctness . > . > . > > PPS Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean . . . > AARRRGGGHHH!!!! > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > [4][10][10][23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. mailto:[11][11][24]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > >> 2. mailto:[12][12][25]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > > 3. mailto:[13][13][26]garrywar...@hughes.net > > 4. > [14][14][27]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > -- > References > 1. [15][28]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH > 2. mailto:[16][29]wer...@orphenica.de > > 3. mailto:[17][30]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. mailto:[18][31]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 5. mailto:[19][32]garrywar...@hughes.net > 6. mailto:[20][33]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 7. mailto:[21][34]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 8. mailto:[22][35]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 9. mailto:[23][36]garrywar...@hughes.net > 10. [24][37]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 11. mailto:[25][38]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 12. mailto:[26][39]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 13. mailto:[27][40]garrywar...@hughes.net > 14. [28][41]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. [42]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH > 2. [43]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wer...@orphenica.de > 3. [44]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. [45]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 5. [46]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net > 6. [47]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 7. [48]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 8. [49]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 9. [50]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net > 10. [51]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 11. [52]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 12. [53]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 13. [54]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net > 14. [55]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 15. [56]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH > 16. [57]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wer...@orphenica.de > 17. [58]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 18. [59]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 19. [60]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net > 20. [61]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 21. [62]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 22. [63]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 23. [64]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net > 24. [65]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 25. [66]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 26. [67]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 27. [68]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net > 28. [69]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
-- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_jpR04Hfo 2. http://youtube.com/watch?v=YxVzNZVflL8 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com 9. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com 10. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com 11. mailto:wer...@orphenica.de 12. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 15. mailto:wer...@orphenica.de 16. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 17. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 18. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net 19. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 20. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 21. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 22. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net 23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 24. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 25. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 26. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net 27. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 28. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 29. mailto:wer...@orphenica.de 30. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 31. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 32. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net 33. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 34. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 35. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 36. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net 37. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 38. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 39. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 40. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net 41. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 42. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 43. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wer...@orphenica.de 44. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 45. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 46. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 47. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 48. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 49. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 50. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 51. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 52. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 53. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 54. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 55. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 56. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH 57. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wer...@orphenica.de 58. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 59. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 60. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 61. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 62. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 63. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 64. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 65. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 66. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 67. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 68. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=garrywar...@hughes.net 69. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
