Dear ArtYes - I just did. What a lot of meaningless jargon. Wikipedia is a mixed blessing but it does have one advantage - it can be updated very quickly.
The entry for Santiago de Murcia gives his correct biographical details but Grove On Line still has the largely fictional biography of him - in spite of the fact that I complained about when it was first written and more recently after Alejandro Vera had unearthed his baptismal and burial records. A lot of the other entries relating to the baroque guitar in Groves are also inaccurate but the current editorial staff couldn't care less.
Moral of this tale - never believe what other people say....I must plead guilty to occasionally amending Wiki entries myself when I have nothing better to do!
Monica.----- Original Message ----- From: "A. J. Ness" <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
To: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
Dear Monica,Take a look at the article "Pitch" in W'pedia. It's pure jargon. Sometimesthese articles are written by persons without an understanding of the subject manner. So they emphasize (or try to emphasize) what they cannotunderstand, as here. And bibliographies are usually deficient of the basicsources, e.g., Ellis and Mendel. A few years ago there was an article in the Boston Globe about two highschool students (ca. 17 year olds) who (between the two of them) had written1000 articles for the Wikipedia. That is an explanation for the poor quality of many articles. But looks good on a college application. (As does playing the lute.<g>) Arthur.----- Original Message ----- From: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>To: "Mark Wheeler" <l...@pantagruel.de> Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:42 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performersWell - I would take anything Wikipedia said with a large pinch of salt. I have just finished reading Hywel Williams study of Charlemagne and theCarolingian Empire which has a couple of pages on the subject of spread ofRoman chant northwards. He says nothing about the clergy being forced to use it on pain of death. I can't quote the whole section in the book but needless to say it was much more complicated than that. Among other things chant as performed in Rome did not remain static. There were significant changes to it during the period in question. What Williams concludes by saying is - "A uniform chant remained the Carolingian goal and a New Hymnal was issued during the reign of Louis the Pious (Charlemagne's son). But Gregorian chant as it evolved during the next two centuries was a synthesis of Carolingian, ancient Roman and the Gallican plainchant which had prevailed under the Merovingians". Monica----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Wheeler" <l...@pantagruel.de>To: "Tony" <ascbrigh...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:11 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performersIronically fitting for this thread, the domination of Gregorian Chant over other forms of chant came through the use of extremely draconian methods... "Gregorian chant appeared in a remarkably uniform state across Europe within a short time. Charlemagne, once elevated to Holy Roman Emperor, aggressively spread Gregorian chant throughout his empire to consolidate religious and secular power, requiring the clergy to use the new repertory on pain of death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_chant Mark On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Tony wrote:Thanks Gary I tried to find information about what the church prohibited inmedieval and renaissance Europe( some of you here may have some usefullinks) While searching for the Council of Trent I came across this list, a summary of approved music The Church's doctrine on liturgical music can be summarized in seven points .... 1 Types of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the Mass and the Sacred Liturgy of the must be either Gregorian Chant, or must be similar to Gregorian Chant. The primary example of music similar to Gregorian Chant is Sacred Polyphony, exemplified by the compositions of Palestrina. 2 Characteristics of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the Mass must have "grandeur yet simplicity; solemnity and majesty," andmust have "dignity," and "gravity," should be "exalted" and "sublime,"should bring "splendor and devotion" to the liturgy, and must be conducive to prayer and liturgical participation, rather thandistracting the listener from prayer. It must be music that befits theprofound nature of the Mass, which is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. As Pope Paul VI put it: "The primary purpose of sacred music is to evoke God's majesty and to honor it. But at the same time music is meant to be a solemn affirmation of the most genuine nobility of the human person, that of prayer." 3 Types of Musical Instruments Appropriate for the Mass. The instrument that is most "directly" fitted for the Mass is the classical pipe organ. Other instruments, however, can be adapted to the Mass, including wind instruments, and smaller bowed instruments.4 Types of Music Prohibited in the Mass. All secular and entertainmentstyles of music are utterly prohibited in the Mass. The introduction of inappropriate music into the liturgy is regarded as "deplorable conduct." 5 Types of Instruments Prohibited in the Mass. All "noisy or frivolous" instruments are prohibited for use in the Mass.The specific instruments named by the Popes have included guitars, pianos, drums, cymbals, and tambourines. "Bands" also are prohibited, as are all automated forms of music (recordings, automatic instruments, etc). 6 Adapting Musical Traditions of Indigenous Cultures, and "Universality." The musical traditions of particular cultures can andshould be incorporated into the Sacred Liturgy, but only in such a waythat they will be recognized as sacred ("good" in the words of Pope St. Pius X) by people of all cultures. That is, all such music must have the characteristic of "universality." 7 Preserving the Church's Musical Tradition. The treasury of the Church's sacred music is to be carefully preserved, rather than discarded aEUR|written in 2002 ..... [1]http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/ I guess compiled by a traditionalist - I know people who go to churches in the UK and Latin America where these rules are vigorously flouted And resumably the lute is a 'noisy' instrument associated with thedreadful frivolities of pianos and guitars Tony --- -- References 1. http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html--