Just an additional point. If you are wondering what this topic has to do with the focus of this discussion list, it has everything to do with the lute. It's a difficult proposition but imagine what lute music from the 16th century would sound like if it originated from a completely secular, even atheistic context. RA > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:22:47 +0000 > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > From: [email protected] > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for church attendance > > Very good point by you, Gary. The Church, for all its faults, was and > is a gathering place, and music was and is a powerful influence that > can be used to enhance religious experience. Today, we don't seem to > like situations that require actual 'face time' and it's so much easier > to communicate via the internet. I personally avoid Facebook (which I > call MyFace, since no one seems to give a hoot about what anyone else > has to say) with its utter lack of the observable indicators and > authentic results of real human interaction. But Donna says, rightly > so, we must be visible there. > In my opinion, sharing a video or sound clip on Facebook is not the > same thing as experiencing the collective focus of a gathering of > people moved to worship by the power of a Mass by Josquin or Byrd. > RA > > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 04:19:43 -0700 > > To: [email protected] > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers > > > > Obviously you were not the demographic they were looking for, Ed. I > think > > what happened was a move away from a contemplative approach to > religiousity > > to a social/interactive approach. Maybe we could trace the origins of > > "Facebook" to the abandoning of the Latin Mass. > > > > Gary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Edward Martin" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> > > Cc: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:36 AM > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers > > > > > > > Interesting concept. Yes, many churches have abandoned their old > > > beautiful music, in favor of this guitar strumming, poorly > composed, > > > boring music. > > > > > > This trend of abandoning art music, in favor of mediocrity with the > > > idea that it appeals to the masses, keeps me away. > > > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:37 AM 3/14/2012, [email protected] wrote: > > >>Chris, > > >> > > >>the concept is so well expressed.. > > >> > > >>Donatella > > >> > > >>----Messaggio > > >>originale---- > > >>Da: [email protected] > > >>Data: 14/03/2012 13.29 > > >>A: > > >><[email protected]>, "[email protected]"<[email protected]> > > >>Cc: > > >><[email protected]> > > >>Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers > > >> > > >> > > >>Donatella, > > >> In America the change in music came much earlier, in > > >>many places > > >> preceding the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic > > >>Church in America > > >> took great pride in dissociating itself from "old > > >>world ways" by > > >> rejecting chant and polyphony. In its place, they > > >>replaced these > > >> traditions with very poor pseudo-folk music. I > > >>suppose this was done in > > >> order to provide "hip" music to attract > > >>young people, under the > > >> assumption that no one under 30 can stand > > >>still long enough to > > >> appreciate beauty. Unfortunately, the resultant > > >>music was some hideous > > >> hybrid that succeeded in being neither > > >>appropriately sacred nor in any > > >> way interesting to young people. At > > >>any rate, young people stayed away > > >> in droves, largely because of > > >>this smaltzy stuff. Still, these very > > >> same wannabe hippy songs - now > > >>approaching 50 years old - and the > > >> stated need to use them to > > >>attract young people are repeated ad > > >> nauseum. > > >> One of the > > >>great unwritten-about artistic travesties of the 20th > > >> century is the > > >>fact that this entire repertoire, which replaced a > > >> still-living > > >>century's old tradition, was not called for by any Church > > >> decree, > > >>but was largely engineered by the publishing company Oregan > > >> Catholic > > >>Press. If you go to practically any church in the country you > > >> will > > >>find the same poor quality songs from the 1960's and 1970's in the > > >> > > >>hymnals. This is not due to regulation, but rather a publishing > deal. > > >> > > >> Chris > > >> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. > > >> Music Faculty > > >> Nazareth > > >>College, Rochester, NY > > >> State University of New York at Geneseo > > >> > > >>Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > > >> www.christopherwilke.com > > >> --- On > > >>Wed, 3/14/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> From: > > >>[email protected] <[email protected]> > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules > > >>for jazz performers > > >> To: [email protected] > > >> Cc: lute@cs. > > >>dartmouth.edu > > >> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:49 AM > > >> > > >> I > > >>googled, in Italian, and this came out [1]http://www.giovaninsede. > > >> > > >>it/animazione-liturgica.php , there are no notes as music is not > > >> > > >>thaught in the same way as abroad, so average people can sometimes > read > > >> > > >> chords ( sigh) and that is. You can get an idea. I used to go to > > >>Mass > > >> as a child, and songs which were sung were possibly ancient and > > >> > > >> complex, often in Latin, then when the previous Pope came, he > > >> > > >>destroyed that part, I guess to make audience ( sad to say, but > that > > >> > > >>is), so that songs became the poorest, musically speaking, you can > > >> > > >>imagine, accompanied by guitar, organ was heard now and then. It > was > > >> > > >>part of a "renovation" of which I can give an example: in the > village > > >> > > >> where I go on holiday , there is a Chapel with a Renaissance > > >>painting. > > >> It needed restoring, but it was visible. Well , it was > > >>covered with a > > >> representation of a black Madonna ( I can't think of > > >>the proper name > > >> right now) which is not even of any artistic value. > > >> > > >> To me listening to > > >> the Mass became a real suffering, this is not > > >>the main reason why I > > >> quit, but I did. > > >> Lute and theorbo are > > >>allowed, I have been asked > > >> several times to play a piece during the > > >>mass ( but I have not done it > > >> up to now) > > >> Donatella > > >> ---- > > >>Messaggio originale---- > > >> Da: > > >> [2][email protected] > > >> Data: > > >>14/03/2012 1.06 > > >> A: "Lute Net"<lute@cs. > > >> dartmouth.edu> > > >> Ogg: > > >>[LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers > > >> On Mar > > >> 13, 2012, at 4: > > >>01 PM, Tony wrote: > > >> > The Church's doctrine on > > >> liturgical music > > >>can be summarized in seven > > >> > points .... > > >> Doubtless > > >> there are > > >>listers who know more about this than I do, but this list > > >> seems like > > >>a compilation of things that have been said on the subject > > >> over the > > >>centuries, rather than functioning doctrine. A lot of it is > > >> pre- > > >>Vatican II. The one about guitars, for example, is obviously forty > > >> > > >>or fifty years years out of date. Try googling: catholic mass > guitar > > >> > > >> (no quotes). Apparently the current pope Benedict doesn't like > > >> > > >>guitars. > > >> -- > > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > > >> > > >>[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >> E' nata > > >>indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica > > >> indoona per > > >>iPhone, Android e PC: [4]http://www.indoona.com/ > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >>References > > >> > > >> > > >>1. http://www.giovaninsede/ > > >> 2. file://localhost/mc/compose? > > >>[email protected] > > >> 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute- > > >>admin/index.html > > >> 4. http://www.indoona.com/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>E' nata indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica > > >>indoona per iPhone, Android e PC: http://www.indoona.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > > e-mail: [email protected] > > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name > > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4271 - Release Date: > 03/14/12 > > 12:34:00 > > > > > > -- >
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