That was amazing, Alain. Thanks!
We see the treatises of Ganassi and Ortiz and examples of Spinacino
and the Segovia ms. through to the books of Terzi, Dalla Casa and van
Eyck and I just can't help thinking that playing the pieces well out
of the books was "a good start".
Speaking of AdR, I like how his ricercars and fantasies always looked
a little more playable than his intabulations. Maybe he made a few up
on the spot or decorated what he already had in his head as he saw fit
in performance and we are left w/ more of the barer bones. But I
wonder if, freed from the need to improvise counterpoint, the chanson
models allowed him to open up and improvise the different voices in
succession (or in parallel). The written examples that survive are
probably one snapshot of the possibilities you'd hear from him.
B.M.'s fantasy on D'amour me plains (Siena ms.) also comes to mind. He
keeps much of the structure of this French standard intact but is very
free in voicing the chords - lots of those up-the-neck chords, some
even where they can played w/ exactly the same voicings in lower
positions (hmmm). The tempo allows a man of his ability to easily add
diminutions as well to it. I'm especially intrigued that he neglects
the final section. Should you go back to the original or continue to
the _next_ fantasy which, to my mind, equally builds on that just
played? We should keep in mind the esteem that VGallilei held for him
in the first Il Fronimo. Apparently they both have wonderful fantasies
on popular standards as well as top shelf contrapuntos. I could easily
believe this is how the big boys played tag in the 1560's or so.
Sean
On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Alain Veylit wrote:
Interesting question -- also not unknown to the jazz world. If you
look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Beh2IrkOfDw, it is
a rendition of the famous gypsy song Les yeux noirs by a bunch of
"young" players, Bireli Lagrene, Fapy Lafertin and co. If I recall,
they all play the original Django version note for note together in
the first run through, before each player develops his own style and
improvisation before a final recap.
Competitions among lutenists were not unknown. I remember Paul O'Dette
telling the story of the meeting of Francis 1st of France with the
Pope. For entertainment, both ruler's virtuoso lutenists got to play
for them. The Pope's lutenist, Francesco da Milano played for Francis,
and as a reward for his excellence, Francis 1st gave him his weight in
gold. Then, Francis's lutenist, Albert de Rippe, played for the Pope,
who gave him, as a reward, his benediction...
The story may be too beautiful not to be somewhat exaggerated, but
there is enough evidence I think that "jamming" in one form or
another, either together on the same tune or in succession was not
uncommon. This would tend to show that audiences then as now valued
individuality in playing. Note that in the video, even though all the
players are playing the Django version note for note, there is a
slight by audible time difference of the order of just a few
microseconds...
For historical evidence, we have to rely for the most part on written
documents, that are only part of the story. For the rest, we have to
rely I suppose on informed imagination and experimentation.
Archeologists do it by experimenting with stone cutting techniques,
luthiers have to do it as a regular part of their work I imagine,
lutenists who compose new pieces also have to take into account the
physical reality of the instrument and draw on their own sensibility
and background to do that. I think personally this is the fun part of
it all.
Alain
On 12/09/2013 01:01 AM, Sean Smith wrote:
Dear all,
Thank you for the Joe Pass suggestions. Jaw-droppingly fluid and
rich. It also got me thinking how jazz standards and renaissance
vocal works evolve in the instrumental sphere.
Quite clearly, the personal reworkings of old established songs is a
great tradition. For example, one of my favorite "standards" is
deRore's 'Ancor che col partire' and there are dozens of lute and
other versions starting from Paladin's earliest. We then see its
evolution to Aminor in Vincenzo Gallilei's setting and fantasy as
well as many of the other heavies. I'd guess that, even if we don't
have a surviving record, it was included in the repertories of many
great players. Terzi? Kapsberger? Frescobaldi? Sweelinck? (Would
Dowland have played it in Italy?) Adriaenssen's two slightly
different settings suggest that versions by players would still
evolve over time and/or performance. It's interesting to watch
Pierre Phalese's "collected" pieces (including Paladin's 'Ancor')
change over the years.
Personally, I love the vocal intabulated literature and, for myself,
decorate or undecorate the vocal lines as my whim and feeble sense
of art suggests. I'm probably not that good at it by renaissance
standards but I feel that it's a skill worth building. Of course I
feel the pieces by the big names should be left 'as is' in
performance but confess to less scruples when on my own and among
the anonymous.
But here's the rub: Should we, as aspiring HIP players, play our own
versions? Should we be expected to play verbatim the pieces in the
books? --extemporize on them? If we are trying to learn from the
masters, including Django and Joe, shouldn't we really be learning
the traditions of making them our own?
What are the community's thoughts on this?
Sean
ps I'd also like to have heard Pass' take on 'Ancor' but I'm content
to explore his catalog that does exist.
On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Alain Veylit wrote:
Nice interview and great final piece,
Alain
On 12/07/2013 06:41 PM, Bruno Correia wrote:
As we are becoming more jazzier these days, I've just bumped into
this
programme with Joe Pass:
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAZP7nWo6A
--
Bruno Figueiredo
Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
--
References
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAZP7nWo6A
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
