Wasn’t Conradi a professional publisher? RT ==== http://turovsky.org Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
> On Sep 18, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Mathias Rösel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote: > > Johann Gottfried Conradi published the pieces in "his" lute book. But he > wasn't the composer. Perhaps his name was a pseudonym. > > Greetings Rainer > >> Rainer Waldeck >> Hauptstraße 52 >> 2020 Raschala >> Österreich >> >> >> An der Villa 7 >> 27628 Hagen im Bremischen >> OT Offenwarden >> Deutschland >> >>> Am 17.09.2018 um 21:22 schrieb Mathias Rösel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>: >>> >>> Well, it does have to do a bit with lute music. >>> >>> There was a theory that the music published by Le Sage de Riche >>> (Breslau, 1695) was not composed by him because the author of that >>> theory couldn't find further evidence for the existence of Le Sage. >>> >>> I objected that according to a remark in Emil Vogl's article on the >>> angélique (Die Angelika und ihre Musik, 1974), one of Falkenhagen's >>> sons studied the lute with Le Sage in Breslau. But the conspiracy >>> author dismissed my objection, saying that Vogl's remark was "not >>> authoritative" (nicht belastbar). >>> >>> The same pattern of thinking was applied to another lute composer, >>> Jacques Bittner (Jakob Büttner), by the same conspiracy author. No >>> evidence for Bittner's existence, so no Bittner at all. The true >>> composer, he said, was the dedicatee of Bittner's lute book, Pierre de >>> Treyenfels who purportedly hadn't wished to publish his compositions >>> under his own name, as he belonged to the nobility. >>> >>> Mathias >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App >>> --- Original-Nachricht --- >>> Von: T.J. Sellari >>> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language >>> Datum: 17.09.2018, 19:36 Uhr >>> An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> >>> I hope we might include Shakespeare scholars in the group of "thinking" >>> people who have considered this question; they indeed have made the >>> relevant scholarship a focus of their careers. As I'm sure many on this >>> list know already, no scholar proposes that Shakespeare wrote every >>> word of the plays attributed to him. On many plays, he had >>> collaborators, and scholars continue to dedicate considerable effort to >>> trying to figure out the scope and nature of his collaborations. (See, >>> for example, Sir Brian Vickers' _Shakespeare, Co-Author: A Historical >>> Study of Five Collaborative Plays_.) To argue that the case for >>> Shakespeare as the sole author of all of his works is yet to be proven >>> misses the point entirely; nobody is trying to prove it, because nobody >>> believes it. But that is not to accept the far-fetched idea that a >>> group of collaborators wrote all the works. There's only "thinking" >>> behind this idea, and absolutely no evidence. It is literally a >>> historical conspiracy theory. Shapiro's book explains why. >>> Perhaps this issue has nothing to do with lute music, but I assume that >>> members of this list are interested in historical accuracy in any case. >>> The "informed belief" that Shakespeare's works were written by a >>> committee is actually very poorly informed. Since I have learned a >>> great deal from this list, I thought I should contribute a small bit of >>> more reliable information when I got the chance. >>> Tom >>> On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:41 AM Ron Andrico >>> <[1][2]praelu...@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> I'm familiar with Shapiro's work. The authorship question >>> indeed. It >>> is a question and not a given. Some like to say the man from >>> Stratford >>> was the sole author of the tremendous output of the works of >>> Shakespeare. That is a theory that has yet to be proven, no >>> matter >>> what your scholars of English Renaissance literature like to >>> propose. >>> A thinking person considers that tremendous output and weighs it >>> against the physical reality of the amount of time required to >>> produce >>> all that scribbling in light of the work a player like William >>> Shakespeare was required to do in order to survive. Then a >>> thinking >>> person considers how persons of noble rank would refrain from >>> publishing their work (Sidney's work was published posthumously). >>> And >>> a thinking person observes how authors and musicians would >>> participate >>> in a salon atmosphere under the patronage of someone like Lucy >>> Countess >>> of Bedford. >>> I have had the opportunity to delve into the subject, and the >>> evidence >>> points to work produced by more than one author that retains a >>> consistent voice due to a collaborative effort with a common >>> goal. >>> Like the collaborative effort that produced the King James Bible. >>> What does this have to do with lute music anyway? >>> __________________________________________________________________ >>> From: [2][3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> on behalf >>> of T.J. Sellari <[4][5]tsell...@gmail.com> >>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 3:19 PM >>> To: [5][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language >>> Re: Shakespeare authorship question >>> There are many theories that purport to cast doubt on >>> Shakespeare's >>> authorship of the plays attributed to him, but scholars of >>> English >>> Renaisssance literature consider them largely nonsense. I >>> suggest >>> you >>> take a look at _Contested Will_ by James Shapiro. A review of >>> the >>> book >>> can be found here: >>> [1][6][7]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-w >>> ho-wro >>> te-shakespeare >>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 7:16 PM Ron Andrico >>> <[2][7][8]praelu...@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> Absolument, Alain. Many forget that the English court >>> was >>> actually >>> French until the upstart Henry Tudor slaughtered his way >>> to the >>> throne. Even then, French was spoken at court through >>> much of >>> the 16th >>> century. >>> As for the less-than-eloquent William Shakespeare, >>> it's just >>> plain >>> silly to think he actually wrote the canon commonly >>> attributed >>> to >>> his >>> name. He was a player, a station lower than that of a >>> professional >>> musician. We can support various theories of who wrote >>> the >>> works >>> commonly attributed to Shakespeare, but my informed >>> belief is >>> that they >>> were written by committee, just like the King James Bible >>> was a >>> few >>> years hence. >>> I think there is strong evidence that the plays arose >>> from the >>> circle >>> surrounding Lucy Countess of Bedford, including the >>> likes of >>> John >>> Donne, Ben Jonson, Edmund Spenser, Samuel Danyel. >>> There is >>> also >>> a >>> theory that the very literate Countess of Pembroke, Sir >>> Philip >>> Sidney's >>> sister, may have dipped her quill in. >>> William Shakepeare the playwright is a successful bit of >>> propaganda >>> that paved the way for other enormous lies that the >>> public >>> buys. >>> It's >>> really very easy for those in a position of power to >>> promote an >>> idea >>> with PR and make the public believe it. Like A=415 was >>> historical >>> baroque pitch, for instance. >>> __________________________________________________________________ >>> From: [3][8][9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> <[4][9][10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> on behalf >>> of Alain Veylit <[5][10][11]al...@musickshandmade.com> >>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 8:37 AM >>> To: howard posner; Lute net >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language >>> If you really want to have a blast at the awful English >>> language, >>> look >>> for something called "law French", a language understood >>> only >>> by >>> English >>> lawyers and very much alive until at least the 18th >>> century. It >>> makes >>> modern legaleeze sound simple, although still difficult >>> to read >>> because >>> in very small letters. Many poor people sent to the >>> gallows had >>> no idea >>> what was said at court... >>> Joke aside, given the introduction of many French words >>> into >>> English >>> (500 words from Montaigne's translator alone) and the >>> still >>> fairly >>> strong presence of French as a an aristocratic language >>> for the >>> few and >>> the famous still in the 16th century, I am wondering if >>> Shakespearian >>> English did not sound quite a bit more French than one >>> might >>> think. >>> Which could mean that to study Elizabethan English, you >>> might >>> have to >>> study Quebecois French, supposedly much closer to 17th >>> century >>> French >>> than Paris French... Or also study modern English >>> pronunciation >>> of >>> Latin, which to my ears sounds quite painful - specially >>> the >>> diphtongs... >>> For example: modern English "Sir", from the French >>> "sieur" (as >>> in >>> monsieur) might have sounded closer to the original >>> French >>> "sire" >>> (lord/majesty : monsieur = mon sire = my lord); the word >>> "court" >>> might >>> have sounded closer to the French "cour". >>> I vaguely remember something about the great diphtong >>> shift in >>> English >>> phonetics - that might account for the split from the >>> French >>> word >>> "Sire" >>> (same "i" as Apple's "Siri") to the modern "Sir" and >>> "Sire". >>> One >>> diphtonguized the other not. But the French is ambiguous >>> since >>> we >>> have >>> both the word "sieur" (Pronounced pretty close to "sir" >>> and >>> meaning >>> "lord" ) and "sire" (pronounced close to "Siri" and >>> meaning >>> Majesty). >>> Americans might want to check this video to speak proper >>> modern >>> English: >>> [1][6][11][12]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU and learn about >>> diphtongs... >>> It's quite >>> scientific, you know... >>> On 09/16/2018 01:27 PM, howard posner wrote: >>>>> On Sep 16, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Matthew Daillie >>> <[7][12][13]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You might be interested in this video which summarizes >>> some >>> of >>> the >>> research carried out by David Crystal et al on English >>> pronunciation at >>> the time of Shakespeare (and Dowland) and the productions >>> of >>> his >>> plays >>> at the Globe theatre using 'Original Pronunciation': >>>>> [2][8][13][14]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>>> Indeed, I was interested enough to have seen it >>> already. It >>> explores >>> the differences between modern Received Pronunciation >>> that >>> London >>> stage >>> actors traditionally use, and the London stage accent of >>> 400 >>> years ago, >>> which is in many ways similar to the way English sounds >>> in >>> Bristol >>> now. Of course, it's all a little peripheral to the >>> question >>> of >>> whether Shakespeare might have spelled differently in a >>> letter >>> to >>> his >>> wife in Stratford than he would in a play to be spoken in >>> London, >>> or >>> whether anyone would have cared. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> [3][9][14][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> -- >>> References >>> 1. [10][15][16]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 2. [11][16][17]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 3. >>> [12][17][18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> -- >>> References >>> 1. >>> [1][18][19]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will >>> - >>> who-wro >>> te-shakespeare >>> 2. [2]mailto:[19][20]praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 3. [3]mailto:[20][21]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 4. [4]mailto:[21][22]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 5. [5]mailto:[22][23]al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 6. [6][23][24]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 7. [7]mailto:[24][25]dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 8. [8][25][26]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 9. >>> [9][26][27]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 10. [10][27][28]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 11. [11][28][29]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 12. >>> [12][29][30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> -- >>> References >>> 1. >>> [30][31]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-wh >>> o >>> -wrote-shakespeare >>> 2. mailto:[31][32]praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 3. mailto:[32][33]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 4. mailto:[33][34]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 5. mailto:[34][35]al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 6. [35][36]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 7. mailto:[36][37]dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 8. [37][38]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 9. [38][39]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 10. [39][40]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 11. [40][41]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 12. [41][42]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> -- >>> References >>> 1. mailto:[43]praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 2. mailto:[44]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 3. mailto:[45]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 4. mailto:[46]tsell...@gmail.com >>> 5. mailto:[47]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 6. >>> [48]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wr >>> o >>> 7. mailto:[49]praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 8. mailto:[50]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 9. mailto:[51]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 10. mailto:[52]al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 11. [53]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 12. mailto:[54]dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 13. [55]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 14. [56]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 15. [57]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 16. [58]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 17. [59]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 18. >>> [60]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wr >>> o >>> 19. mailto:[61]praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 20. mailto:[62]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 21. mailto:[63]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 22. mailto:[64]al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 23. [65]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 24. mailto:[66]dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 25. [67]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 26. [68]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 27. [69]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 28. [70]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 29. [71]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 30. >>> [72]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wr >>> ote-shakespeare >>> 31. mailto:[73]praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 32. mailto:[74]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 33. mailto:[75]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 34. mailto:[76]al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 35. [77]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 36. mailto:[78]dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 37. [79]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 38. [80]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 39. [81]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 40. [82]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 41. [83]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> -- >>> >>> References >>> >>> 1. >>> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer >>> 2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 5. mailto:tsell...@gmail.com >>> 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 7. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-w >>> 8. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 9. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 10. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 11. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 12. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 13. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 14. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 16. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 17. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 19. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will >>> 20. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 21. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 22. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 23. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 24. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 25. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 26. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 27. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 28. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 29. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 30. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 31. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who >>> 32. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 33. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 34. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 35. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 36. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 37. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 38. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 39. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 40. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 41. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 42. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 43. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 44. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 45. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 46. mailto:tsell...@gmail.com >>> 47. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 48. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wro >>> 49. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 50. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 51. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 52. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 53. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 54. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 55. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 56. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 57. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 58. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 59. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 60. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wro >>> 61. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 62. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 63. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 64. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 65. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 66. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 67. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 68. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 69. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 70. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 71. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 72. >>> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wrote-shakespeare >>> 73. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >>> 74. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 75. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> 76. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com >>> 77. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 78. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr >>> 79. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 80. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 81. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU >>> 82. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s >>> 83. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > >
