On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 10:44:37PM +0200, Helge Hafting wrote:
> Bo Peng wrote:
> >>So if we ship LyX with built-in "emph" and "strong" charstyles, then
> >>the users wanting bold and italic gets what they want. And we
> >>still have the advantages of charstyles - a special document
> >>class can override "strong" to do a color trick, for example.
> >>    
> >
> >1. charstyle is more difficult to use than font change. For example,
> >if you have abcdef in a charstyle, and you want to change all or part
> >of them to normal style, several steps are needed. Toggle-bold etc are
> >much easier in this case. So, for simple cases, font-change is easier
> >and should be preferred.
> >  
> Nothing stops us from having toggles on our built-in
> charstyles.

Backspace at the starting position inside deletes the charstyle.

> >2. charstyles are not ready for 1.5.0. There is no default charstyle
> >defined anywhere, and there is no easy way to create one. Do you guys
> >really expect a normal user to hand-edit a .layout file?
> >  
> Not at all. Which is why I suggested that LyX ships with
> "strong" and "emph" charstyles predefined. _We_ can
> put those two into the .layouts we distribute so that
> the users won't have to! They will only need that
> hand-editing if they want _more_ charstyles.
> 
> My impression is that charstyles works in 1.5, there is just no
> user-friendly way of adding them. This does not prevent
> developers from adding some common styles.

Hmmm yes... provided they default to label off.

> >3. Bold is needed. In many cases, more than one emphasis style are
> >needed so \em alone is not enough. In case that there is no \strong,
> >\textbf should be provided. (My opinion is that both should exist).
> >  
> With emph and strong, you do have a bold.  Unless you
> redefine strong - but if you do that, then you're able to
> define some other bold.
> The typical use for a different "strong" is if the font
> in use is bold already though. Such as in the
> headings - they are already bold.
> >4. Bold is commonly used so all word processors put them upfront.
> >Jurgen argued that lyx is not a word processor, but that was nonsense.

"Everybody" may be wrong, and often is. This is one example.

> Which is why I suggest to distribute a "strong" that in
> all standard classes _will_ be bold.  Problem solved - users
> then have an emphasis stronger than "emph".
> 
> I don't think calling it "strong" instead of "bold" really will
> scare people away. That will just be one of the many little
> differences in LyX, the lack of rulers and linebreaking that doesn't match
> output surely is a bigger thing to get used to. . .
> >5. Trying to force users to use lyx/latex in a certain way is wrong.
> >Not able to mark a word bold in 5 minutes is enough for a new user to
> >give up lyx.
> >  
> Possibly.  Which is why I suggest a predefined "strong"
> that indeed does "bold" when using the distributed .layouts.
> 
> Stick it on the toolbar (like emph) for easy access. If the user s
> don't understand the word "strong", then perhaps they
> understand the bold-looking button. :-)

+1
 
> Helge Hafting


- Martin

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