Yeah. Actual "Data Cassettes" that were sold were C10. Just 5 minutes per side.But again, it doesn't seem logical that a normal recorder made for audio would be affected by this. I think most decent ones had some sort of speed control built in.And anyway, this wouldn't be significant when playing back from a PC soundcard anyway. -------- Original message --------From: Tom Wilson <wilso...@gmail.com> Date: 7/20/21 7:44 PM (GMT-05:00) To: M100 Mailing List <m...@bitchin100.com> Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes I always used 60 or 90 minute tapes - mostly because that was what I could get for $1-2 at the local drug store. =)Tom wilsonwilso...@gmail.com(619)940-6311 On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:40 PM Scott McDonnell <mcdonnell.j...@comcast.net> wrote:Regarding the recommendation for using shorter tapes, what I had always been lead to understand is that the longer tapes put more of a load on the tape motor, so it can run a bit slower. That was for computer specific data cassette decks. Not sure if that holds true with a standard deck also.-------- Original message --------From: Bill Miranda <bill.mira...@gmail.com> Date: 7/20/21 7:16 PM (GMT-05:00) To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes The only normal bias tapes I have are C60 tapes. I know some of the books I read on Archive.org say that C20 is the recommended length. Have you had success with C60 tapes or are these too long?Thanks for the info. I’ve learned a lot about the cassettes from this group. I just wish I could get it to work! BillOn Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 5:53 PM Brian K. White <b.kenyo...@gmail.com> wrote:Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct, so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.
In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years. If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time. When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the tape that don't match. In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning, there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player, but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape players. It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system, detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in other parts of the system. Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100, the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries (1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than another due to slight variations in some of the components and things like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years in a very stable and cool environment. But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to compare against. The first player I got off ebay didn't work either (but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4 or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it isn't smashed in pieces and it works at all, then it's working perfectly within all specs. In this case I'm guessing you're actually >< this close to working and it's just something like getting the file name part right, or maybe the felt pad in the cassette etc. -- bkw On 7/20/21 1:32 PM, Bill Miranda wrote: > Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating > the volume on the cassette. But, I still couldn't actually load my 4 > line "hello world" BASIC program that I created. Was it really this > hard to use cassette tape back in the day? I have tried recording > through the mic jack and through the aux jack on separate tries. Given > that I am having this problem using two different machines and two > different cables, it seems to me that my problem must either be with the > cassette player itself or the way I'm trying to do it. I suppose it > could be that I have problems with both machines and that both cables > are bad, but that seems unlikely to me. I'm running out of ideas and > probably losing enthusiasm for this project. I just thought it would be > cool to get it working. > > Meanwhile, I have a REX and I have it working to transfer files to/from > my Windows 10 laptop using Laddie Alpha so I'm pretty much good to go. > Thanks for your help! > > Bill > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM Brian K. White <b.kenyo...@gmail.com > <mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > On 7/19/21 8:38 PM, Bill Miranda wrote: > > I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a > > cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear > to both > > be working normally but I am unable to load a program or document > from a > > cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music > from my > > computer by line cable. If I save a program or document to tape, > I can > > hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back. However, I > cannot > > get either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on > either > > of my two devices. Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a > new > > cable from arcadeshopper.com <http://arcadeshopper.com> > <http://arcadeshopper.com <http://arcadeshopper.com>> and I get > > exactly the same result. I am using Radio Shack C60 normal bias > tape. > > I also tried to load a wav file from my computer with no luck > either. > > So what am I doing wrong? > > > > Thanks for your help! > > > > Bill > > if the plugs are only colored without labels: > red goes in mic > small goes in rem > white or black goes in ear > aux not used > > If it's the black & grey cable I don't remember which is mic & which is > ear, so just try both ways, but the main point is, it's EAR not AUX > or LINE. > > deoxit the volume pot and the jacks > > volume on "P" if there is a "P" setting, otherwise start on 6 and go up > from there (I don't know about CCR-83, but CCR-82 has a special "P" > setting that makes the volume perfect automatically, & most others > do not) > > SOUND ON in basic before doing cload to see if the signal is making it > in to the 100 > > Maybe put a saved search on ebay for CCR-82 and wait for one to come > along that isn't $50 (and order a belt set because the belts are old > and > soft in everything by now, if not totally tuned to goo) > > pc or other random modern digital audio recorder/player will always > be a > 50/50 shot in the dark. M100 wants a high signal strength of 2v > peak-to-peak ideally, and a lot of new devices like phones & computers > headphone jacks don't go that high. Sometimes you can get it to work on > 100% volume, sometimes not. You have to be knowledgeable and careful > when recording too, to record as loud as possible without clipping. > It's > very likely to record either too faint or too loud and distorted from > clipping, if you don't actually set the input levels when recording. > People do it all the time successfully, but it is yet another case of > having to fiddle with volume levels, and in that case both while > recording and then again while playing back. > > There's at least one known working mp3's on line you can download to > try > loading from pc without the extra variables from recording. > See DOS100.CO.MP3 from > >http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum > ><http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum> > > -- > bkw > -- bkw
