Well that would be good news I think. Question- * did you try to load up TEENY.CO? If you can get that running, it can work with TPDD directly without needing the Utility disk.
If you transfer this attached TEENY.DO to your laptop via serial transfer, Then load and run in BASIC, You will get TEENY.CO in the directory. Depending on what memory location TEENY is set up to run at, you can issue a CLEAR command in BASIC, and then it should run right away. Go into BASIC type LOADM "TEENY.CO you will get three locations Start XXXX End YYYY EXE ZZZZ type CLEAR0,XXXX where XXXX is the value of START. exit BASIC, and select TEENY. Should be running. Teeny howto is here: http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TEENY On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 2:36 PM Spencer <spencer...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Does everybody want to hear a funny??? Guess what? After reading links > from Brian (not the sheep dip guy Bruce) I realized there is a BIG > difference with the TPPD1 and the TPPD2. IT ACTUALLY says Portable Disk > Drive for TPPD1 and Portable Disk Drive 2 for TPPD2 right on the face! > What about that?? ;-) Yep brain fart! So I can do the bootstrap, but no > Utility Disk. I looked at the link Brian gave me where I can buy the > Utility Disk for $15 BUT what I have to wait???. ;-) Dang! > > All this time I was treating it like a TPPD2 - wow! Too much on my mind! > > Spencer > > P.S. Let me hear the chuckles now. ;-) > > On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 09:35:51 PM EST, Brian K. White < > b.kenyo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 11/15/22 20:12, Spencer wrote: > > I found this llink > > (Tandy_Portable_Disk_Drive_Service_Manual_26-3808S_text.pdf > > (archive.org) > > < > https://ia802901.us.archive.org/13/items/tandyportablediskdriveservicemanual263808stext/Tandy_Portable_Disk_Drive_Service_Manual_26-3808S_text.pdf>) > and > it says "Service Manual" on the first page. It's not the typical service > manuals I've seen. > > That's the software manual and is known, and is for TPDD1 not TPDD2. > One of the pages I linked already has it: > tandy.wiki/TPDD > And there you will also find an actual normal service manual, but again > for TPDD1 not TPDD2. > > When I said no one has turned up a service manual, I meant for TPDD2 > because you were talking about a TPDD2. > > I also didn't realize you already had a whole other working TPDD2 to > compare against. > > If I had known you already had a whole other TPDD2 and already made it > work, I could have skipped a lot of that because you've already > successfully done it, which proves your 200 is ok, your disk is ok, you > have the right kind of disk, your cable is ok, and you know how to > perform the bootstrap. > > If you have TS-DOS in rom, then really that's the best, and in that > case, you actually don't want to try to install Floppy because they > conflict. Just use one or the other. I mean there are ways but it's not > worth getting into that. The simple answer is if you have TS-DOS, > especially in ROM or via REX#, then just use that and don't even bother > with the bootstrap procedure or Floppy. > > I brought up pdd.sh just for interrogating the drive at a lower level so > you can debug what's wrong. It can show at least if the drive firmware > is running and communicating and it's just a physical problem for > instance. "drive not ready" from TS-DOS doesn't tell you really anything. > > But it's barely documented so it's also kind of arcane to try to use > unless you're me I guess. But for instance maybe if you try a format, > and it spins the drive and steps the head, but always fails verify, or > if trying to read a raw sector always yields all 00's or drive not > ready, maybe that means there's a problem with the head or the cable to > the head. If the head never steps, that's a separate cable if I remember > correctly. TPDD2 is a lot easier than TPDD1, but even on TPDD2 a couple > of the cables can be a tricky. So there is some chance still for a > pretty easy fix by checking just major functions like that to see if > some parts work and only some parts don't work, before having to think > about maybe something more complicated wrong with the electronics. > > Could be something really mechanically simple too like the disk media > isn't being pressed against the head if there's anything wrong with that > black arm or the little microfiber pad or the metal part that raises and > lowers the arm. > > As for the crazy rocket science, that is just what's going on behind the > scenes. The procedure is fast and easy and works, if you do it exactly > as specified in the manual, but I have seen people fail to do that, but > think they were doing what it said, and think it didn't work. Because > although the directions work, they don't say why they work. So I was > just showing what is actually happening. > > -- > bkw > > > > > > > Yes I ran the IPL from Bank1 which was a file I created by following the > > TPDD2 Operations Manual; within the IPL file it was simply => RUN > > "COM:98N1ENN." I ran it with the drive off then I turned it on - nothing > > happens. With my drive that works this command works fine, but with this > > one with problems it doesn't work. Agree running this command from basic > > would do the same thing. On pg 8 of the Ops Manual it says exactly what > > to do as far as saving this IPL BA file. No rocket science or convoluted > > details but simple straight forward details. I know it's not the serial > > cable or port on the T200 because it works with my other TPDD2. So on > > the misbehaving drive it never shows the "INITIAL PROGRAM LOADER II" > > header. Didn't get any message about "SYSTEM EXISTS" - nada. Got the > > Util diskette with Backup.ba and Fremem.ba and other files. My serial > > cable is the one that I bought 2 years ago that came with the drive and > > the Utility diskette and they work. I'm assuming it's the original cable > > because it was nicely packed with the nice little blue carrying case > > with Tandy written on it. > > > > I have TS-DOS on ROM, but haven't tried it yet with a TPDD2. > > > > The TPL I'm referring is the file that Ops Manual suggested creating and > > adding the COM line to it (just one line above). > > > > Ultimately with the drive that works I simply ran the IPL, turned on the > > drive and it did it's thing, then I began using the utility diskette > > with backup and made copies of the Utility disk, so this times me the > > problem is with the troublesome drive. I would run the IPL, turn on the > > drive and nothing. I even went upstairs for a cup of coffee and still > > nothing when I returned, so shift-break to get out of it. That's all > > I've got. > > > > Thanks for your time! It's appreciated. > > Spencer > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 11:40:10 PM EST, Brian K. White > > <b.kenyo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > The operation manual is on-line several places. > > http://tandy.wiki/TPDD <http://tandy.wiki/TPDD> > > > > I don't think anyone has ever turned up a service manual or programming > > manual for it yet. > > > > I'm confused by what you said earlier. > > You said you ran the IPL from ram, but, the boot procedure for TPDD2 > > doesn't require saving any IPL. You just manually enter a single command > > in BASIC and the drive does the rest. > > > > But there is more to it than that. You don't just run the command, you > > have to arrange several details and conditions exactly a certain way and > > THEN run the command at a certain point in a short sequence of > > procedures. If you omit any steps or do anything out of order, it > > doesn't work, and some of the details don't seem important so it's > > natural to gloss over things not realizing they actually matter. > > > > It requires the special util disk for TPDD2 (the TPDD1 one won't work on > > TPDD2), the special serial cable (includes transistors inside, it's not > > an ordinary cable). > > > > Start with the drive connected and turned OFF. > > Make sure the write-protect hole on the TPDD2 util disk is OPEN. > > Insert the TPDD2 util disk. > > Type into BASIC: > > RUN "COM:98N1ENN" > > and hit Enter > > Only now turn the drive ON. > > > > The drive does the rest itself. > > > > The drive is checking a few different things one time at power-on to > > decide if it should do the bootstrap. > > * disk must be inserted > > * disk must be write-protected > > * DSR pin must be low > > * disk must contain the necessary data in the expected location on disk > > (I don't know the exact rules the firmware is following, just that the > > util disk satisfies it.) > > All that has to be in place before power-on. It doesn't matter any other > > time. You can't trigger the bootstrap after the fact. It's a one-time > > check right at power-on. > > > > > > You can also skip the normal util disk and just use any other TPDD > > client instead of Floppy. You can use a bootstrapper to install TS-DOS > > onto the 200 from a PC, and then us TS-DOS with the drive. > > You only need the util disk if you want to run the original Floppy tpdd > > client that came with the drive. But it's not the best DOS so there > > isn't really much reason to bother with it except just for academic > > reasons. If you just want to use the drive, none of the bootup procedure > > matters since the util disk is the only disk know that does it. Every > > other program has to be installed some other way. > > > > To install TS-DOS from a pc, If Windows try github.com/bkw777/tsend > > if mac or linux, try github.com/bkw777/dlplus > > each one's readme has further details. You want TS-DOS.200 in either > > case since you have a 200. > > > > > > Possible problems: > > > > The serial cable is special and has transistors inside. Do you have an > > original cable or a proper replacement (github.com/bkw777/TPDD_Cable), > > or something that's just wire and connectors without the level-shifting > > transistors? The original cables have a sharp bend at the plug that I am > > amazed isn't broken wires on everyone's cables by now. Most original > > cables still seem to work actually, but I just suspect that cable until > > proven working, or if it looks like it hasn't been flexed a lot right at > > the db25 boot and "looks good". > > > > The disk is special. Do you have an original TPDD2 util disk or a proper > > copy on 720K media, or something else? TPDD1 util disk is different and > > won't work. A copy made on a 1.44M disk may work but is untrustworthy. A > > copy made by manually copying the files instead of using the backup > > utility won't work. > > > > If by IPL you mean the 3 or-so line BASIC for TPDD1, that won't work for > > TPDD2. If you mean the single command for TPDD2, it requires more than > > just running the command but I already went over that above. > > > > If you have a linux or mac machine, and can scrounge up the necessary > > 9-25 & gender-change adapters *without* null-modem, you can interrogate > > the drive manually with this bash tpdd client: > > github.com/bkw777/pdd.sh > > see the hardware link in the readme for links to the right adapters. > > > > After install just try "$ pdd ls" > > bkw@fw <mailto:bkw@fw>:~$ pdd ls > > ----- Directory Listing [0] ----- > > AFLOPY2.SYS | F | 11475 > > BACKUP.BA | F | 1940 > > FREMEM.BA | F | 372 > > ------------------------------------- > > 186880 bytes free [WP] > > bkw@fw <mailto:bkw@fw>:~$ > > > > (that A in AFLOPY2.SYS is really reverse video, and stands for a > > normally non-printable binary byte 0x01 that's on the disk but not > > normally visible in any normal DOS like Floppy or TS-DOS, it's part of > > what makes this disk "special") > > > > If you don't get a file listing, you could try increasing the debug > > verbosity to 1, 2, 3 or more, and try the "status" command, or > > "condition" (a similar but different command), or "ls" again, and see > > what kind of error code(s) the drive returns. > > > > $ DEBUG=3 pdd status > > > > "drive not ready" could be all kinds of things, but the drive firmware > > actually returns a bunch of different possible numeric error codes as > > part of the response to every commend, and pdd.sh will display a text > > meaning of the numerical code. (you can look at the list near the top of > > the script too) > > High levels of debug will show a lot of stuff that won't make a lot of > > sense, but it's the actual traffic between the pc and the drive, in hex, > > with the various parts of the packets seperated and parsed. > > > > Mainly though you just want to see if traffic is flowing in both > > directions and you're getting meaningful responses from the drive at all. > > > > And see things like, can you make the drive spin on demand with commands > > like "ls" or "format"? > > > > With ordinary serial cables connecting to a drive emulator on a PC > > instead of a real drive, "drive not ready" usually means the serial > > cable doesn't have the necessary DTR/DSR connections, or at least > > loop-backed. It should never be a problem with an original cable and a > > real drive, but, it's just a data point that suggests looking at the > > serial connection. Maybe the cable, maybe the port is bad on the 200. > > TPDD needs RX, TX GND, DTR, and DSR. RTS & CTS don't matter. > > > > Other things you can try are "format" to erase and format a disk. > > It's possible the drive is good and only your disk is bad. > > Get a "new" 720K disk (NOT 1.44M, and by "new" I just mean one you are > > willing to erase, not your original util disk!), close the write-protect > > door in the corner, and try "format" (from within pdd.sh I mean). > > > > If you don't have a TPDD2 util disk, and you think maybe the drive is ok > > but maybe just your disk isn't, get a new or disposable 720K disk and > > try the restore-disk command to create a new TPDD2 util disk from the > > included disk image. The directions are in the readme on github but here > > is a session capture too just for reference: > > bkw@fw <mailto:bkw@fw>:~$ pdd > > > > (I ran "pdd" with no args, which puts you into interactive mode) > > > > PDD(opr:6.2,F)> status > > Ready > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> cond > > Disk Write-Protected > > Disk Changed > > > > ("PDD(opr:6.2,F)>" is a prompt that shows a bunch of > > current mode/status stuff. The client (pdd.sh is a tpdd client) > > doesn't know anything about the drive yet, so it's just showing > > the default settings. > > The status command caused some one-time init/detect stuff to > > happen along the way before doing the actual status command, > > so after the status command, the prompt changes to show that > > we detected a TPDD2, and the [0] means any file operations will > > happen in bank 0. > > > > The condition command returned that the disk is write-protected, > > and detected that the drive door had been opened since the last > > command. > > > > Here I also removed the disk and closed the write-protect window > > in the corner of the disk and re-iserted.) > > > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> cond > > Disk Changed > > > > (shows the drive door was opened again, and no write-protect this > time) > > (below for "rd" it's the full path to the file where I happen > > to have my clone of the repo) > > > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> rd > > ~/src/pdd.sh/disk_images/TPDD2_26-3814_Utility_Disk.pdd2 > > Restoring Disk from File: > > "/home/bkw/src/pdd.sh/disk_images/TPDD2_26-3814_Utility_Disk.pdd2" > > Formatting Disk, TPDD2 mode > > : Are you sure? (y/N) y > > [########################################] 100% > > > > Loading "/home/bkw/src/ > pdd.sh/disk_images/TPDD2_26-3814_Utility_Disk.pdd2" > > Writing Disk > > [########################################] 100% > > > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> ls > > ----- Directory Listing [0] ----- > > AFLOPY2.SYS | F | 11475 > > BACKUP.BA | F | 1940 > > FREMEM.BA | F | 372 > > ------------------------------------- > > 186880 bytes free > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> > > > > (The util disk is created, but the drive firmware will ignore it at > > power-on unless it's write-protected, so open the write-protect door...) > > > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> ls > > ----- Directory Listing [0] ----- > > AFLOPY2.SYS | F | 11475 > > BACKUP.BA | F | 1940 > > FREMEM.BA | F | 372 > > ------------------------------------- > > 186880 bytes free [WP] > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> > > > > (the [WP] in the corner shows that the disk is write-protected) > > > > PDD(pdd2[0]:6.2,F)> exit > > bkw@fw <mailto:bkw@fw>:~$ > > > > > > It's very easy for the client and the drive to get out of sync. > > The protocol has almost no provision for detecting and handling > > unexpected events gracefully. If anything irregular happens on either > > side, with the drive or the pc, the two will be immediately out of step > > and no recovering. Just power-cycle the drive and exit & restart the > > script any time anything at all out of order happens like if you open > > the drive door in the middle of a format or ctrl-c the script in the > > middle of a file copy etc. > > > > When the drive realizes that "something ain't right", it blinks the > > low-battery light and stops responding or doing anything. > > > > If at any time you see the low-battery light blinking, just power-cycle > > the drive and start over whatever you were trying to do. > > > > > > -- > > bkw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/14/22 18:09, Spencer wrote: > > > Found nothing of value when I looked again. I found that on some > earlier > > > models (so it appears) it had a physical dip block, but on later > models > > > it had four jumpers on SW1 but were soldered (or etched in the board) > at > > > the factory and the bottom part of the four switches showed the > contacts > > > as open. It looks like they should be off, but please set me straight > if > > > my assumption is wrong. In any event still the "drive not ready" error > > > still there ;-(. I'll see if I can find a service manual unless any of > > > you have one you wouldn't mind sending me. > > > > > > Thanks for your help! > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 04:57:18 PM EST, Spencer > > > <spencer...@yahoo.com <mailto:spencer...@yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ok I popped the hood and YES there is a dip block of four switches and > > > all are off, and yes it's covered by the shield so opening that little > > > door shows just the shiled. If anyone knows how they should be please > > > let me know. Something I did find was the power supply has a white > > > connector that plugs into a board with the fuse and it was some pulled > > > out from one side but not all the way. Actually don't know if I pulled > > > it out when I opened it or not. Btw the 1A fuse is good. Everything > > > looks good. Don't see any popped/leaking caps or broken solder joints, > > > but I'll try it again and share what I find. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 03:26:44 PM EST, John R. Hogerhuis > > > <jho...@pobox.com <mailto:jho...@pobox.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:59 AM Greg Swallow <gswal...@mchsi.com > > <mailto:gswal...@mchsi.com> > > > <mailto:gswal...@mchsi.com <mailto:gswal...@mchsi.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Oh my. Checked for cover and assumed DIP under it as the TPDD1 I > > > once had. Opened the TPPD2 lid to expose bright shiney shield. No > > > DIP switches. Never had to change anything so never opened it > before > > > now. > > > > > > > > > And my recollection is that means short of somehow populating the DIP > > > (which may or may not work) you're locked at 19200bps on the TPDD-2. > The > > > TPDD-1 is actually a rebadged Brother FB-100. The FB-100 has the dip > > > switches, but defaults to 9600bps which the Brother Knitting machine > > > devices are locked to. So although TPDD-1's can be used with Brother > > > Knitting Machines, the TPDD-2 cannot. > > > > > > -- John. > > > > > > -- > > bkw > > > > > > -- > bkw > >
TEENY1.DO
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