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Sign, Bubba bubbatheg...@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Michael Busboom Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:17 AM To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility Subject: Re: Data entry on the iPhone 4 with OS5 As usual, Esther, your response was delightfully thorough and instructive. One question I forgot to ask in my original note was about the orientation of the iPhone when entering data. Should it be oriented to landscape or portrait? Along similar lines, does the iPhone need to be lying on a surface or can I hold it while entering data? Thanks so much, to you, Sarah and everyone else who is helping me. Mike On 17,Nov,2011, at 8:51 PM, Esther wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sarah's explanation of the behavior of the insertion point position describes how to tell where you are positioned in a text entry, and also which characters will be removed when you press the delete key, but I'll try to answer your specific questions by interleaving replies. You might want to check the earlier podcasts at the Vision Australia web site (for the iPhone 3GS, for example), because the concepts of keyboard entry arise very early, and they probably didn't redo podcasts to have separate episodes for the iPod Touch, iPhone 4, etc. > > Other than this, while there probably are podcasts that demonstrate this, I can't quickly think of one. (Of course, Mike Arrigo's podcasts tend to cover everything, so you could start there *smile*.) One podcast demonstration that might help you out is Kevin Chao's podcast on "Text selection. Copying and pasting" at: > feed://kevinchao.podbean.com/feed/ > It's actually more complicated than what you're asking about, but the second half of the podcast describes using the web rotor to move your insertion point by characters and words, and what VoiceOver announces. > > > Michael Busboom wrote: >> MB: 1. How can a document that is currently being written checked for errors? In other words, must one somehow leave the keyboard app in order to do this? > Esther: If you are typing with the virtual keyboard in the bottom half of the screen, you can leave the keyboard up, but move your hand to the top half of the screen and set the rotor to either "characters" or "words". Do this by placing thumb and forefinger on the screen, with a slight separation, and twisting clockwise (or counter clockwise), as though you were turning a dial. Some people find it easier to use their index finger and middle finger, and twist these to make the turning gesture. > >> MB 2. When hitting the Delete button, how does one determine whether the first character of the text has just been deleted or whether the cursor is at the end of the text, and deleting from right to left is occurring? > When you're in a text field and double tap, you'll hear VoiceOver alternately say "insertion point at start" or "insertion point at end". The way to check your insertion point in the middle of a document is to set the rotor to either "characters" or "words" and then to flick down (to move forward) or flick up (to move backwards). VoiceOver will announce the character or word that you just moved over. > > Let's take an example. You're in the Notes app and just typed "Hello world", and want to review your entry. Currently you're at the bottom of the document. You double tap and hear VoiceOver say "insertion point at start", so the insertion point has just been moved before the H in "Hello". If my rotor is set to "characters", then each flick down moves the insertion point one character to the right. VoiceOver announces each character as you move the insertion point over it, so the direction that you move counts! If I'm at the start of the phrase, I won't be able to flick up to move to the left of the H in "Hello". If I flick down to move by one character to the right, I hear "H" as the insertion point moves from before the "H" to a position between the "H" and the "e". If I flick down again, I hear "e" as the insertion point moves over the "e" to a position between the "e" and the first "l" in "Hello". But, had I instead flicked up to move by one character to the left, I > would have moved back over the "H" to my starting point, and VoiceOver would have announced "H" as I moved over this letter from the other direction. > > If I keep flicking down in an editable field, with my rotor set to character, I hear all the letters announced as the insertion point moves over the letters from left to right: H, e, l, l, o, space, w, o, r, l, and d. Now, suppose I wanted to edit and change "world" to "word". After I flicked down and moved past the "l" of "world" and hear it announced, my insertion point is between the "l" that I just heard VoiceOver announce, and the final letter "d". Double tapping the "delete" key deletes the letter to the left of the insertion point. If I double tap the "delete" key to the right of the "m" key and just above the "return" key in the bottom right corner of the virtual keyboard, I'll delete the "l", and VoiceOver will announce the new word, "word" (instead of "world"). My insertion point is still before the final letter ("d") in the phrase. I can flick down to move my insertion point to the end of the text. > > The same process works to edit phrases by word. If my insertion point is at the start of the phrase, and I've set my rotor to "word" instead of "character", then flicking down moves my insertion point one word to the right. I hear VoiceOver say "Hello". The insertion point is just after the final "o" in "Hello". Pressing the delete key would have VoiceOver announce the deleted letter ("o"). If I now flick up to move left by one word, VoiceOver announces "Hell", and the insertion point is placed to the left of the word (at the beginning of the phrase, before the "H"). If I want to edit "world", and assuming it were near the end of a sentence (instead of being the second word) I could flick down to move through the sentence by words. Then, when I was just before "world", I could change the rotor from "word" to "character" and flick down to hear the individual characters announced, and make my correction. Or, more likely, I would flick down and hear "world" announced, an > d decide that I wanted to edit that word. So I would change my rotor to "character" instead of "word", and start flicking up to move to the left. My insertion point is always placed before or after the character (or word) I have just navigated past. Since I navigated to the right (flicked down) by word, it is after the final letter "d" in "world" -- the word I just heard VoiceOver announce. If I flicked up (to navigate to the left) before switching the rotor to "characters", the insertion point would be placed at the end of the previous word (e.g., it would be all set to announce the "Hello" with the next flick up). > >> MB: 3. Does anyone know of a podcast where this topic is handled in greater depth? I only started using my iPhone yesterday, and I really can't complain too much. I only encountered the keyboard entry problem when I unsuccessfully tried to sign in to a website. :) > > > Esther: There probably is a podcast that covers this, but I can't think of one offhand. You might have an easier time reviewing entries with a paired Bluetooth keyboard. I'm going to paste in the question and response I gave to a much earlier list post by Matthew Chao last year. He wrote: > >> Finally, I have an Apple Bluetooth keyboard. Is there any way I can get VO to just say words while on the keyboard, not repeating characters, while on the phone itself, repeat characters and words? > Esther: The issue you have stems from the fact that VoiceOver is announcing both your context location and your specific items when you navigate through text with a keyboard. If you only want specific words spoken, hold down the Shift key to select entries as you navigate -- then only the items that you select with the keyboard will be spoken. If you press Shift+Option+Right Arrow, for example, you will move your insertion point to the right by one word (Option+Right Arrow), and also select it (since the Shift key was pressed). VoiceOver will announce that word. If you keep holding down the Shift and Option keys while tapping the Right arrow key, you'll hear VoiceOver announce those words, too. If you hold down the Shift key and just tap the Right arrow key, you'll be selecting characters, and VoiceOver will announce the character. You can select from present point to end of line (Shift+Command+Right arrow) or to the beginning of a line (Shift+Command+Left arrow). You c an > also move (and select) by lines by using your Up and Down arrow keys. To get out of selection mode, just move your cursor (e.g. press right or left arrow) without holding down the shift key. The keyboard shortcuts were posted to this list earlier, and can be found in the archives. > > HTH. Cheers, > > Esther > > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> > > To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> > or at the public Mail Archive: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. > Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> > > The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! > > Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> or at the public Mail Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. 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